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A questionable butterfly

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Strong and Stable
Strong and Stable
30 May 2017 18:28
Former Torridge & West Devon Candidate – Dawlish Town Councillor Martin Wrigley
 
 
 
 
“Lib Dem candidates in seats lost earlier than 2015
 
Martin Wrigley is hoping to win back Torridge and West Devon (where Emma Nicholson switched from the Tories to the Lib Dems in 1995 and John Burnett then won the seat for the party in 1997 and 2001)...
 
 
 
 
Torridge & West Devon Candidate – Fremington Parish Councillor David Chalmers
 
 
 
“David Chalmers selected as Lib Dem candidate for Torridge & West Devon in Snap General Election
 
Torridge and West Devon Liberal Democrats are proud to announce that David Chalmers will be standing as our candidate in the upcoming Snap General Election on the 8th of June.
David has been energetically campaigning across Northern Devon to save our hospitals and protect our school budgets. In David Chalmers, the Lib Dems are putting up a serious candidate against Geoffrey Cox, we need a full-time MP - not a hobby MP.”
 
 
 
1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
30 May 2017 20:37

Well, as Cllr Wrigley is mayor of Dawlish it would be a bit difficult to fulfill the duties associated with that and be fighting for a parliamentary seat in Torridge and West Devon (albeit only until June 8th).

No doubt had cllr Wrigley remained a parliamentary candidate he would have got flack from some, (Andrew/Indy Scott?) who seems to have it in for Cllr Wrigley for some reason, for not attending to his Dawlish mayoral duties.

 

   

1 Agree
Andrew
Andrew
30 May 2017 23:23

My comments concerning Cllr Wrigley elsewhere on this site relate to his politics, even if I disliked the guy, I've not written anything untrue or personally insulting. 

But as you've brought me into this @Lynne then yes I would be critical (if that's what you mean by 'flack') of any local coucillor acting in the same way as the then deputy mayor.

 

The election campaign would only last 1 month, but he'd still have to attend to his duties on DTC as the newly elected Mayor, as well as campaigning in places like Hartland, Holsworthy and Tavistock. And tying down a day job. Have you seen the size of that constituency? 

 

Nevermind remaining a candidate, the fact he took up the candidacy in the first place shows where his priorities were/are. That's the real issue.

 

What's the point in standing for office without the commitment to the full 4 year term? Aren't elections being held for three council posts soon? They take time and money out of the public purse. The Dawlish electorate can do without 'wantaways'.

 

Or are you blind to that? You might be a staunch Lib Dem yourself for all I know and therefore biased. But not everyone unthinkingly jumps on the 'We're the only party that can beat the Tories' bandwagon;  I find the Lib Dem's hard to take seriously or trust.

 

What does he know about North and West Devon and the people who live there anyway? And it's ironic that he's pictured in front of Cockwood harbour and the Anchor Inn - wrong coastline! 

 

Funny how it was kept very 'schtum' locally.

 

Got the Lib Dem flyer today; at least Marie Chadwick can honestly model herself as a  'local Champion'.

Lynne
Lynne
31 May 2017 06:30

It is not in the least bit unknown for candidates in a general election to stand for election in constituencies a bit of a distance from where they live.

This usually, but not always, occurs where the seat is deemed as 'safe' for one party so any candidates from any of the others are paper candidates. It enables those paper candidates to learn the ropes and then, if they wish, to look to be selected by their political party for a more winnable seat in the future.

This happens with all the political parties.

There was an article (in last week's Dawlish Post I think)of a south Devon tory being selected to fight in a safe Labour seat up north. She herself said it was a safe Labour seat.  This devon person is Cllr Amanda Ford who is the Conservative district councillor for Teign Valley on Teignbridge District Council. She is standing as the tory general election candidate  in the Yorkshire constituency of Barnsley Central.    

And back in 2005 I think it was didn't we have one Stanley Johnson standing as the Conservative general election candidate in this constituency?  Anyone know what his local connection was? 

1 Agree
leatash
leatash
31 May 2017 10:23

I think he came from Cornwall but if it's the same Stanley Johnson he is a environmentalist i have a book of his called Survival the strange thing is he is a dead ringer for Boris but not related. Anyway Lynne you are correct thats what parties do and always will it gives there candidate experience on there way up the political ladder.

Lynne
Lynne
31 May 2017 10:25

And what is deemed to be a local connection by some may not be deemed to be so by others.

 

Does Molly Scott Cato the Green Party candidate for Bristol West now live in that constituency? She might, I don't know. All I can find online is that she was born in Wales, grew up in Bath and at some time it looks as though she was living/working in Stroud, Glos.  So does that count as a local connection to Bristol West?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Scott_Cato

Andrew
Andrew
31 May 2017 10:33

I'm aware of Cllr Ford and Barnsely Central. Imagine someone from Trusham where house prices are on average £500-600K representing the centre of Barnsley? It's farcical.

I would love to hear a southerner waxing lyrical about Barnsley's people, the issues the town faces and how committed they are to passionately representing them in Westminster.

And what if she couldn't understand the Barnsley accent 'ey duck? It's ridiculous.

If those who aspire to be MPs in the future want to gain campaigning experience they'd do well to shadow the standing parliamentary candidate in their local area and get to grips with local people and their issues so they're prepared for 2022.

 

It might not be unknown for candidates to learn the ropes, but it makes a joke of democracy.

 

Surely Barnsley Central Conservatives can find one local candidate? 

 

Torridge and West Devon Lib Dems settled for David Chalmers, 'Barnstaple's Champion'. That's in the adjacent constituency, but it looks like a wiser move than a candidate from down here.

 

So we might see Cllr Wrigley standing for parliament in Newton Abbot ion 2022 then?

 

 

Lynne
Lynne
31 May 2017 10:44

@leatash - that Stanley Johnson and Boris Johnson look like each other may have something to do with the fact that they are father and son!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Johnson_(writer)

Andrew
Andrew
31 May 2017 11:00

Molly Scott-Cato also stood in Presili Pembs in 1997 and 2005, she went to Aberystwyth University - so she has lived in Dyfed. Aber uni and CAT both have strong links with eco/sustainability projects all over Wales.

Pembrokeshire Council, Stroud Council and Bristol West all have vibrant eco-movements/communities which Scott-Cato has been a part of for many years, from low impact living in Pembs, Transition Stroud and any number of green initiatives in Bristol.

She's also a Green Party MP and campaigns for people and planet. She's a dedicated politicians not a 'jonny-come-lately' and hardly a 'blow-in' candidate.

 

 

 

 

Lynne
Lynne
31 May 2017 11:17

 Depends on what you mean by 'blow-in'. 

So M. S-C has done the rounds a bit then? Learnt her trade? I don't have a problem with that. As I said above, that's par for the course for all those 'careerist' politicians as some would call them.    

I lived in Brighton Pavilion constituency when Caroline Lucas got 'blown in', as some would put it, ousting a local Green (Keith Taylor)  who had worked his heart out in that constituency. Green Party selected her over him.  So much for local connections! 

 

Lynne
Lynne
31 May 2017 11:50

and talking of local connections and Green Party candidates.

I've just had the Green Party election leaflet delivered. So I looked up the candidate.  It reads as though she lives in Plymouth.

Anyone know if that is correct?

Andrew
Andrew
31 May 2017 11:52

@Lynne you brought molly scott-cato into this not me. you went looking for information about her on a thread that relates to newton abbot and torridge and west devon Lib Dems and cllr wrigley.

 

Molly Scott-Cato and Caroline Lucas have learnt their trade over three decades, joining the Green party in 1988 and 1986 respectively, 

 

Since 2014 M. Wrigley has campaigned to;

 

Form a break-away Parish for Cockwood, separating from Dawlish.

 

been co-opted onto

 

Starcross Parish Council

 

stood for election to;

 

Dawlish Town Council 

Teignbridge District Council

Devon County Council

 

Held/Molds the posts of

 

Deputy Mayor & Mayor

 

And been parliamentary candidate for;

 

Torridge and West Devon.

 

That's quite a lot in 3 years. 

 

Your comment brings us back to our discussion on what a 'career politician' or 'careerist politician' actually means. I offered my thoughts but you never answered my question;

 

What do you think is the meaning of the term 'career politician'? 

 

And relating to 'blow-In' Carloine Lucas 'ousting local Green Keith Taylor, you've already stated the same thing happens in Barnsley Central, as it does in Torridge and West Devon and here with Stanley Johnson.

 

So what do you mean  by exclaiming 'So much for local connections! I thought you accepted that it was just what happnes with political parties and their candidate selections.

 

Yiou seem rather aggrieved as a former resident of Brighton. Which is quite ironic.

 

And why are you now bothered if the Green Party candidate lives in Plymouth? Does she study there?

 

I accept that candidates stand in areas where they may have never even set foot.

It doesn't mean that I have to agree with it. I don't. 

 

I wonder if Toridge and West Devon's Lib Dem candidate in 2015, Paula Dolphin was also a local who worked her heart out for that constituency?

I guess we don't know if she was 'ousted' or if she stood down.

Maybe she was the only Lib Dem willing to stand in all of that consituency in 2015! And then they had to ship in an 'outsider'.

 

And why are you deflecting this issue from the Lib Dems and onto the Green Party? 

 

Surely you could find more Conservative or Labour examples... What about UKIP and Paul Nutall? He'll try and get elected anywhere.

Why choose a party with 1 MP to prove your point?

In any case aren't the Lib Dems and Greens stepping aside and not conesting certain seats to benefit one another; Richmond Park and Lucas's Brighton pavillions? For example.

Why have a go at the Greens?

And choosing to criticize prominent, respected politicians like Scott-Cato and Lucas in support of Cllr Wrigley is bizarre.

Lynne
Lynne
31 May 2017 12:45

It struck me that you were having a bit of an issue about a particular someone who lives in this constituency being, until recently, a candidate in the upcoming GE in another constituency.  This person is a Lib Dem.

So I pointed out that this is a  not uncommon occurence. And gave a Tory example.

You, yourself have given a UKIP example.. That party has no MPs yet you query my referring to the Green Party because it only had the one.

 I don't see how many MPs a party had @ the dissolution of the last parliament has anything to do with the issue of whether or not candidates for a consitutuency should live in that constituency.    

It also strikes me (although of course I could be wrong) that you have Green Party sympathies. Which is why I have given Green Party examples of people standing in constituencies in which they do (or did) not necessarily live.

I see from what you have posted about Cllr Wrigley that he has been busy over the past few years. Learning his trade perhaps just like Molly S-C and Caroline L.?

You were the one who asked "What does he know about North and West Devon and the people who live there anyway?". Well you could say much the same for any candidate of any party who stands in a constituency some miles from where they live. That is why I latched onto the knowing and living in the constituency issue. 

Which reminds me. Anyone know where the Green candidate for this constituency lives? Is it still Plymouth? 

 

PS North Devonian has gone very quiet. Not a dicky bird from her/him since their initial post. Just an observation.

PPS I have responded to the posting from Andrew above that I just read. However, I have noticed in the past that a posting from Andrew/Indy Scot sometimes gets amended quite substantially between its original posting and when I get around to reading it again. Nothing wrong with editing or amending at all. But it does mean that what I have responded to in this post and what the above post by Andrew may end up reading as (courtesy of later amendments etc) may end up making my response looking like a non answer. Just thought I would flag that up.  

And true to form........I've just looked at it again and he has amended it.  

 

  

1 Agree
Andrew
Andrew
31 May 2017 12:47
 
"You were the one who asked "What does he know about North and West Devon and the people who live there anyway?". Well you could say much the same for any candidate of any party who stands in a constituency some miles from where they live."
 
 
 

Of course I could - but why would I? Referring to Cllr Wrigley is wholly relevant to this town and thius constituency. 

 

Of course I have Green party sympathies, given my background in sustainability. that's why you posted about those two politicians.

But I'm not voting Green.

 

I assume you have strong Lib Dem sympathies. 

 

Wrigley has tried to climb the same ladder as Scoot-Cato (Scott-Cato) and Lucas have done in 3 years, whereas they've been career politicians for 30 years.

 

Maybe the Green candidate studies in Plymouth, she looks like she's in her early 20s. 

 

in the meantime @Lynne;

 

What do you think the term 'career ploitician' means? 

 

PS north devonian will be at work I expect.

PPS what have I amendededited. that you've replied to? (Apart from this PPS) - This is getting tiresome.

@Lynne you've amended your posts to and i've had to alter some of mine.

Stop trying to undermine me with petty tactics.

Lynne
Lynne
31 May 2017 13:10

i believe i have made my points@Andrew.

Oh dear! I didn't give any examples of Labour candidates standing for election outside of where they live. How remiss of me! Wonder if that makes me a labour supporter? Might do in the eyes of some I suppose. People will and can assume whatever they wish. 

Is there a time scale then for how long a (would-be) MP takes to learn the ropes?  

I'll tell you what @Andrew - whilst how I vote this time is between me and the ballot paper I will 'fess up to having in my time voted Labour, Green and Lib Dem.  And on one occasion I even spoilt my ballot paper. 

 

Oh and btw you've used the term career politicians to describe both Molly S-C and Caroline L (or at least you have as I type this).

Your words "Scoot-Cato and Lucas in 3 years, whereas they've been career politicians for 30 years."  

What do you mean by that term? 

 

PS Anyone else still following this thread or are you all bored to tears by now?

 

 

 

leatash
leatash
31 May 2017 13:36

Thanks LYNNE i did make the connection but for some reason the penny didn't fully drop i blame it on my age.

Andrew
Andrew
31 May 2017 15:45

@Lynne, exactly molly scott-cato and caroline lucas are career politicians and very good ones in my opinion, who stand for a very worthy cause.

 

I don't believe the term 'career politician is necessarily derogatory. It depends on many facors.

 

I've already made my opinion known on what the term 'career politician' means.

I've asked you the same question twice now.

If you don't want to reply, this discussion seems pointless as dialogue should'nt be a one-way process.

 

How you vote is your business.

 

A journalist writes a newspaper article about Cllr Ford of the Teign Valley standing as parliamentary candidate for Barnsely Central.

They clearly deemed it newsworthy.

 

A contributor makes us aware of Cllr Wrigley becoming the parliamentary candidate for Torridge and West Devon (for a period).

Is that not newsworthy for the people of people of Dawlish?

 

@north devonian deemed it newsworthy for those in the bideford area where he lives. his post also relates to david chalmers in torrridge and west devon and not just our current mayor.

Although he posted on here to see what I'd write in relation to Dawlish. 

 

There's no need to take umbrage.

 

i believe i've made my points @Lynne.

Lynne
Lynne
31 May 2017 16:10

I never said Cllr Wrigley being a Lib Dem parliamentary candidate wasn't newsworthy.

or that now that he isn't a candidate isn't newsworthy.

So thank you, or should I say thank you North Devonian, for letting us all know that he was a candidate until a few weeks ago but now isn't.

And if you think this story is so newsworthy then I suggest you contact our local press. And then if they think it a newsworthy story they will run it.  

All I can say is that it seems to me that Cllr Wrigley has actually shown where his priorities are by putting his mayoral duties in Dawlish before any parliamentary ambitions he may have.

 

 

 

 

2 Agrees
Andrew
Andrew
31 May 2017 16:12

@Lynne i can thank @north devonian in person when i go surfing with him next.

 

That is pretty much all I'd expect you to write (or say) about Cllr Wrigley

 

And yes, I agree maybe the local press would be interested.

SickOfIt
SickOfIt
31 May 2017 21:14

@Andrew can I ask, have you ever tried directing any of your questions directly to the Mayor or is your only goal to badmouth him on a forum of which he is not a member?

1 Agree
Andrew
Andrew
31 May 2017 23:10

@SickOfIt No surprise to see you back.

 

You can ask, but first reply to my questions from this thread;

 

https://dawlish.com/thread/details/45568

 

And as for 'badmouthing' the Mayor on this forum, where?  Can you offer examples?

You're the one who trades in petty insults and contravenes privacy on here.

I don't owe the likes of you any explantion.

 

You always have the option to report me to the webmaster, if you think I've breached site rules and you can substantiate it.

 

Otherwise stop wasting my time.

 

SickOfIt
SickOfIt
31 May 2017 23:41

you're so quick to claim you're being insulted but no one has every said anything to you thats worse than some of the 'opinions' that you churn out.

 

You just seem to have an awful lot to say about things you think he's done and lots of these could be answered or laid to rest by simply having a polite conversation with the man. But I guess you enjoy hiding behind your computer screen where you can sit and plan your mini essays knowing that as soon as anyone as a reply you dont like you can claim they're throwing insults

1 Agree
SickOfIt
SickOfIt
31 May 2017 23:46

why have you edited your post, literally what is the point

1 Agree
Andrew
Andrew
01 Jun 2017 00:17

@SickOfIt

 

You don't offer any balanced, constructive opinions, just nasty, condesending rants. You're far from the model of politeness that you so espouse.

 

I've re-edited my post because

1) I can - it's my post

2) I changed my mind about what I wanted to write in reply to you - it's my post

 

@SickOfIt, if you think you can tell me to 'shut up', imply I'm vindictive and psychotic and now tell me i'm hiding behind my computer screen, when you hide behind yours with your @SickOfIt pseudonym having breached my privacy and disclosed my real name - without my consent - and then expect me to answer your invasive questions?,

You must be completely deluded. 

It's ironic and arrogant that you think you have the moral higher ground and that you believe I'm somehow answerable to you.

 

You really have some cheek by lecturing me on politeness.

 

My opinions relate to political figures and what is in the public domain. Political figures come under scrutiny as they represent the electorate.

Individual members of the public do not come under scrutiny as they only represent themselves and nobody else.

 

Unless of course they're seen as a threat to someone or other who wishes to protect a public image.

I assume you're one of Cllr Wrigley's biggest fans. Now @Gary Taylor has gone I wondered when the next cheerleader would appear.

 

Your rather subjective view of me is based on what? What you interpret on here and what you know about me outside of this forum.

Yet you hide behind your pseudonym.

 

If you know me then why not come and ask me your questions in person?

 

I'd say you're the one with a grudge. Most of your posts involve hassling me.

 

Are you intent on perpetuating this conflict on every thread where I appear? 
SickOfIt
SickOfIt
01 Jun 2017 08:09

tl;dr

Andrew
Andrew
01 Jun 2017 10:44

@SickOfIt. I'm sure you read it all.

 

You didn't reply, because you cannot reply.

 

it's funny how both@SickOfIt and @Lynne think i should talk to the mayor.

And how coincidental that they both have an issue with my re-editing.

 

@SickOfIt

If you know me then why not come and ask me your questions in person?

 

SickOfIt
SickOfIt
01 Jun 2017 23:12

Oo Andrew, are you asking me on a date 😱😱

Loving the conspiracy theories you have going on. Just for clarification, never met lynne don't know who she is!

 

Andrew
Andrew
02 Jun 2017 12:04

@SickOfIt on second thoughts you have a point; it's just a coincidence - @Lynne is much more savvy than you are and i don't think she's naive when it comes to her points of view.

And she has a genuine interest in politics and the local community.

 

And whatever makes you think I'd want to go on a date with you??? Hilarious!

What have you been smoking? haha.

SickOfIt
SickOfIt
02 Jun 2017 18:01

Aaaaand of course the sarcasm has gone completely over your head, why am I not surprised 

Andrew
Andrew
03 Jun 2017 11:20

@SickOfIt i undertood your attempt at sarcasm.

The dating comment is bizarrely tangential; in any case I thought you had eyes only for the Mayor?

If you are a woman you're a peculiar one.

SickOfIt
SickOfIt
03 Jun 2017 12:34

Why would I lie about my gender. I'm so bored of you, it would seem the saying is correct. One can't argue with stupid. Enjoy your narrow close minded life you ridiculous man

1 Agree
Andrew
Andrew
03 Jun 2017 12:42

@SickOfIt hey gorgeous. no need to diss me.

And why do you want to argue with me anyway? Why make it personal?

Coincidentally I'm just off to the Exeter Respect Festival to meet some other 'narrow, closed minded' folk. haha.

I'll catch you later xx

Strong and Stable
Strong and Stable
05 Jun 2017 15:29

That's strange none of the links on my post work.

 

Strong and Stable
Strong and Stable
05 Jun 2017 15:32

Even stranger, only @Lynne's links work.

@webmaster why is that?

Has some content been censored/blocked/impeded? Why would that be?

webmaster
webmaster
05 Jun 2017 16:49

@north devonian, you have to set the hyperlink yourself using the link button. When you paste hypertext from another source, it sometimes detects it but not always.

Andrew
Andrew
05 Jun 2017 17:30

sort it out @north devonian

Strong and Stable
Strong and Stable
06 Jun 2017 15:50

oh shut up indy scot, Whoops i mean @Andrew! Whoopsy!!! hahaha

sorted now and re-posted, thanks @webmaster.

Good luck on Thursday David!

 

Former Torridge & West Devon Candidate – Dawlish Town Councillor Martin Wrigley
 

http://http://www.libdems.org.uk/martin_wrigley

https://twdld.org.uk/en/event/detail/2017-02-23/torrington-libdems-agm

https://twdld.org.uk/en/article/2017/1207158/brexit-a-personal-view•

 

 “Lib Dem candidates in seats lost earlier than 2015
 
Martin Wrigley is hoping to win back Torridge and West Devon (where Emma Nicholson switched from the Tories to the Lib Dems in 1995 and John Burnett then won the seat for the party in 1997 and 2001)...

 

http://www.markpack.org.uk/142288/liberal-democrat-election-candidate-selections/ https://martinwrigley.mycouncillor.org.uk/

 

 Torridge & West Devon Candidate – Fremington Parish Councillor David Chalmers
 

https://davidchalmers.mycouncillor.org.uk/2017/05/03/championing-the-barnstaple-community/

 

Torridge & West Devon Candidate – Fremington Parish Councillor David Chalmers
 
“David Chalmers selected as Lib Dem candidate for Torridge & West Devon in Snap General Election
 
Torridge and West Devon Liberal Democrats are proud to announce that David Chalmers will be standing as our candidate in the upcoming Snap General Election on the 8th of June.
David has been energetically campaigning across Northern Devon to save our hospitals and protect our school budgets. In David Chalmers, the Lib Dems are putting up a serious candidate against Geoffrey Cox, we need a full-time MP - not a hobby MP.”

 

https://twdld.org.uk/en/article/2017/1211920/david-chalmers-selected-as-lib-dem-candidate-for-torridge-west-devon-in-snap-general-election

https://davidchalmers.mycouncillor.org.uk/

1 Agree
HuwMatthews2
HuwMatthews2
07 Jun 2017 01:42

No apology to Webmaster for your 5 June 15:32 post then North Devonian?

Strong and Stable
Strong and Stable
10 Jun 2017 13:27
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