General Discussion

New Play Park

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ZIGGY
ZIGGY
20 Jun 2016 20:22

I thought originally there was talk of it being where the putting green is. Much safer in the lawn.

 

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3 Agrees
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
20 Jun 2016 22:40

Well I am sure all those who enjoy the quiet and peaceful sport of bowling will be delighted..........not! We have been here before. Yes, Dawlish could do with a playpark so we can mimic Teignmouth and Paignton but is next to the bowling green the best place? What about the grossly underused Tuck's Plot with the 1960s boring golf which is hardly used? Wouldn't this be a much better place? The PP would be seen from the road by visitors in cars and on the train so it might just entice them to stop awhile in our lovely town.

7 Agrees
Dil
Dil
24 Jun 2016 15:16

I would tend to agree with MS that next to the bowling green is inappropriate, the calm and tranquility of bowls and the play and excitement of our children perhaps not the best neighbours. So childrens play area on the boring golf area  but could I suggest an outdoor sturdy adult excercise area between the stand and the bowling green instead. I have seen these now in many countries whilst on holiday and see many people using them enthusistically whether as part of their exercise routine or as part of physio therapy for rehabilitation or movement in older years. As we have an ever increasing elderly population I'm sure it would be beneficial and no doubt some of those participating in the bowls may wish to use between games, (not saying they need it you know what I mean!) 

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
24 Jun 2016 23:41

I honestly do not understand why some are just so keen to swallow up our lawn area. What is wrong with having a nice green open space for families to enjoy? Almost every day this week there have been dads and mums sitting in that area enjoying quiet time with their children or enjoying a kick around with a ball. Lovely to see. Teignmouth and Paignton have much more green space than we do so can afford to give some of it  over to a play area and, in Teignmouth, crazy golf, but we do not have the same expanse so why crowd it out with play areas and adult exercise areas? Develop Tuck's Plot fit for the 21st centuary and enhance the town.

12 Agrees
Mcjrpc
Mcjrpc
24 Jun 2016 23:56

I don't think Tuck's Plot is a good place for a play park, it's boxed in by busy roads, but I also don't see why the Lawn should host it.    Far from Dawlish 'crying out' for one, there's already one by the hospital, no more than four minutes away, plus a new one by Newlands.     Walk a bit further, it's good exercise.  

8 Agrees
leatash
leatash
25 Jun 2016 11:15

We need do we not attractions for visiting families when the tide is in or a grey day a playpark would be a great idea it may keep the visitors with kids in town and maybe spend some cash.  Dawlish is as it is because folk are backward thinking we still have the old bandstand what a eyesore that is and all because folk dont want change wake up people this is the 21st century and visitors want more than sand and sticky rock.

4 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
06 Jul 2016 10:55

The Play Park is an agenda item at tonight's Dawlish Town Council meeting. I retain an open mind on the subject and will listen with interest to the debate, however my thoughts surrounding the subject going into the meeting are as follows: 

 

Play Park? If one is wanted by a majority of Dawlish residents and could be funded and well maintained, then yes.

 

But on the Lawn? No. My current view is that viable alternative locations probably exist elsewhere. The Lawn is a vital piece of open green space in our town centre and is a major attraction in its own right.

 

And the Bandstand? Replacement urgently needed. A nice old fashion traditional wrought iron affair would be just the job. Bring on the bands!

11 Agrees
Purrrrrfect
Purrrrrfect
06 Jul 2016 11:37

Use the perfectly good play park opposite the Manor House. Why should everyone else suffer  from screaming kids/parents on the Lawn. It's bad enough with the Dawlish drinking club at the happy hut.

The Lawn is a finite space, How much Lawn would be left if the TERMITE (replacement for bandstand area) had been constructed plus this play park.

Leave The Lawn alone, once it's gone, it's gone. It seems so much of the Victorian heritage is being erased from Dawlish.

I really have no confidence in the town council based on prior mad hatter ideas!

 

9 Agrees
Purrrrrfect
Purrrrrfect
06 Jul 2016 11:38

@Gary Taylor, i tend to agree with you, for a change, on the idea of an old style traditional bandstand to replace the bunker.

5 Agrees
ZIGGY
ZIGGY
06 Jul 2016 11:53

As someone suggested in todays Dawlish Gazette a good place would be where The Piazza is also to demolish the huts and part of the flower beds.

2 Agrees
Farty Bickers
Farty Bickers
06 Jul 2016 12:01

The Piazza was only constructed in 2009 and was to be used by different events to give the Lawn a rest bite over the winter months. Again, use the play area opposite the Manor House. The walk will do the parents and kids some good.

 

http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/397.pdf

6 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
06 Jul 2016 12:58

Tonight's Dawlish Town Council agenda below:

 

http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/1916.pdf

 

Item 12 refers to the Play Park.

 

Please note: The meeting is to start at 6.30pm to include a presentation by Devon County Council on proposals for the extension of the new cycle route into Dawlish town centre.

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
06 Jul 2016 14:14

Well said Gary 😊 Speak up tonight please. 

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
06 Jul 2016 14:15

Well said Purrrrrfect.

1 Agree
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
06 Jul 2016 17:52

Thank you Margaret. Perhaps we will see you there?

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
06 Jul 2016 18:30

Sadly not Gary, my hubby although home from hospital needs looking after. Good luck though in the meeting.

roberta
roberta
07 Jul 2016 11:12

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BEE9
BEE9
07 Jul 2016 11:50

I would be interested to hear the opinions of those that use the lawn balls to the possibilty of the new play area being next to the bowling green.  Anyone who knows a person who partakes in the lawn bowls at Dawlish ask them if they would like to add their comments on this post.

1 Agree
roberta
roberta
07 Jul 2016 12:24

Its going to Public Consultation so surely thats where people put their comments

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
08 Jul 2016 15:13

Suggest people click on this link and read the agenda.

http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/1919.pdf

roberta
roberta
08 Jul 2016 18:23

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1567776296855854/?hc_location=ufi If you click on this link you will find a lot of opposition

BEE9
BEE9
09 Jul 2016 10:19

@roberta - checked out the facebook link, mandy bach posted a comment on the page stating that there is a covenance on the lawn which does not allow any building on the area. does anyone know about this?

She also states this is why the bandstand was never redeveloped

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
09 Jul 2016 10:29

This was mentioned when they wanted to build the monstrous armadillo on the lawn. Some research was done but I don't know if anyone actually found anything out. I will email a couple of people and post here if I find anything out.

Lynne
Lynne
09 Jul 2016 19:18

Can anyone throw any light on what is going on please.

That link that I posted above shows the agenda for the (ad hoc?) full council meeting being

held this coming week. 

Why are items that I understand were agreed at the previous full council meeting now up for being rescinded?

 

AGENDA
1 Apologies for absence
2 To receive and consider requests for dispensation
3 Minutes - To approve, sign and adopt the minutes of the Town Council meeting held on 
6 July 2016 (to be circulated). 
4 To rescind the following resolution taken at the Town Council meeting on 6 July 2016:
The following options be included in the public consultation:
a. A play park on The Lawn between the bandstand and the bowling green (the current 
scheme). 
b. A different size play park on The Lawn between the bandstand and the bowling 
green. 
c. A play park on The Lawn in another area.
d. Expanding/improving the play park in The Manor House Gardens instead of a new 
play park on The Lawn.
To include an on-line survey such as 'Survey Monkey' as part of the public consultation.
5 Play Park -To consider a recommendation from the Civic Amenities Committee for a play 

park to be provided on The Lawn subject to public consultation

 

 

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
09 Jul 2016 21:12

@Lynne, not been a councillor for over a year now so my memory might be a bit iffy but i thought any decision made in any council or committee meeting  had to be 'called in' within 10 days of the decision being made if there was to be a challenge to the decision. i have not come across 'to rescind a resolution' before. 

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
09 Jul 2016 21:15

@Lynne, thanks for the link, i think as many of us as poosible need to attend that meeting as, on the surface, it all seems a bit odd as there is no mention of a 'call in' on a decision made at the previous meeting. i will do my best to be there. 

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
14 Jul 2016 18:30

The source I emailed tells me there is no covenant on the lawn area. 

Lynne
Lynne
16 Aug 2016 09:04

on 13TH Aug. on another thread which had wandered onto the subject of the playpark Gary Taylor posted

this (but my emphasis in red bold):

 

"This is the relevant extract from the Sainsbury's S106 town centre developer contribution document:
 
£200,000 towards "projects aimed at sustaining the vitality and viability of Dawlish town centre and including works to meet objectives contained in the Town Centre Masterplan dated April 2008 as published by the Dawlish Community Trust". 
 

http://www.dawlishcommunitytrust.org.uk/masterplan/downloads/dawlishmasterplan.pdf

 

And below a couple of extracts from the DTC Town Centre Masterplan document:

 

Para 1.1 Background:

"The plan contains a long list of proposed projects, including priority action to:  

. improve the Lawn, Manor Gardens and other public and open spaces 

. increase turnover, footfall and employment by making the Strand safer and more attractive to visitors..."

 

Para 10.5 The Lawn:

"The Lawn will return to its original character as a generously proportioned, tranquil and elegant green space in the heart of Dawlish. By removing visual clutter these proposals will reinforce the simple, formal character of the Lawn, and restore the integrity of the spatial set-piece formed by the Strand, Brunswick Place and gardens..."

 

So my question is: if the aim is to return the lawn to being a tranquil and elegant green space by removing visual clutter how

will having a playpark sited there achieve that?     

7 Agrees
BEE9
BEE9
16 Aug 2016 15:24

@Lynne - i belive they erretced all those stainless steels signposts around the lawn after this document was originally posted. i would have thought that those were visual clutter. as to the play park on the lawn, if parents are to lazy to walk a couple of hundred yards to the current playpark. they certainly should not be rewarded with another play park on the lawn to reward them for their laziness and take away the current tranquily that the lawn presently has for the rest of us.

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
16 Aug 2016 16:26

So..........let's just say, for the sake of argument, that a play park on the lawn was a non starter but that there was still a demand

for a playpark in the centre of the town - somewhere.

I have heard the site of Tuck's Plot mentioned by others.

Now here's the thing. We all know that it is where there is a crazy golf amenity. But is it cost effective? Might the site be used for other purposes?

I raise this issue as I know that a Freedom of Information request was submitted to TDC asking about the annual revenue this facility generates, how much it costs TDC to run etc. In other words is the facility cost effective?

TDC refused to provide such information on the grounds that it might be commercially prejudicial. Now, I might accept that argument if the crazy golf facility had been tendered out. However, from what I can gather it is run by TDC itself and if that is true then another question we might ask is why can we not know how much it costs to run/how much revenue it generates?. After all if it is being run by TDC then we, the taxpayers of Teignbridge, are paying for it.

Would be interested to know what others know/think about the Tuck's Plot issue (both as a location for a playground and also why TDC are being so coy about the crazy golf facility financial situation.)    

    

Morty Vicker
Morty Vicker
16 Aug 2016 16:38

LN, the same 2008 report also states that the land between the unsightly bandstand and the bowling green is "something of a dead space". 

 

In my opinion, the proposed play park would bring it to live. And with it retain and gain business within the town. To compare the little playground at the manor with the fun play park in Teignmouth is frankly like comparing chalk and cheese. Hopefully the opinions of the wider Dawlish public (of all ages) will be considered when the decision is made. 

Lynne
Lynne
16 Aug 2016 19:00

MV - yes I know what the report says about the space between the bandstand and the bowling green.  But the report goes further by suggesting that the present bandstand be knocked down and a replacement be sited further up towards the bowling green which would include a cafe.

I cannot find anywhere in that report any suggestion of a children's playground being sited on the lawn.  

What the report does say about the lawn is this:

 

"The Lawn will be a quiet zone within the sequence of spaces

in the heart of the town, flanked by more active areas around

the café and the market place. But the beauty and elegance

of this “town garden” will be a big attraction for visitors and

locals, and by making the Lawn a more accessible space our

proposals will encourage pedestrian traffic. At Carnival time

and other seasons, the management regime for the Lawn

should focus on relatively low impact activities which will

not compromise the quality and ambience of the space. "

2 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
16 Aug 2016 19:40

The conclusions of the Town Centre Masterplan are clear, Morty - that the whole of The Lawn should be retained. 

 

In any case the space in question has considerably livened up over the course of this summer, and especially during our peak season. Firstly as the only available leisure/sport/amenity space during the time the fair was in town and now as a site for the marquee for the carnival.

 

If  the town wants to continue putting on and growing such events in the future to help promote tourism and benefit trade, the financial implications for any loss of area of The Lawn will need to be carefully considered. On this matter the jury are still out.

 

2 Agrees
Morty Vicker
Morty Vicker
16 Aug 2016 19:42

LN, I know what the report says about it being a "quiet zone". 8 years on, I personally believe that we need to look at the success of the Teignmouth model, and create a play park to help continue stopping Dawlish from becoming a dead zone.  Sadly the only opinions that are being heard are those of the old aged residents (I don't mean you LN btw!).  

Lynne
Lynne
16 Aug 2016 21:09

MV - as it happens I am totally open minded about all this.

I am merely pointing out what the S106 agreement says.  

burneside
burneside
16 Aug 2016 21:34

How do you come to that conclusion Mrs C, are you privy to representations made to the Council?

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
16 Aug 2016 23:42

So.........we need to copy Teignmouth and Paignton. Why? Is aspiring to copy others aspirational? No! We need to be creative and provide something others don't offer because offering the same old same old on a reduced scale will NOT pull the punters from those two towns. 

Morty Vicker
Morty Vicker
17 Aug 2016 07:13

The last time something aspirational was attempted for the lawn, it was shouted down by the same people trying to shout down the play park. Therefore, in my opinion, it's better to follow the lead of a successful model. I've never mentioned attracting people from Paignton. It would be good for local businesses and residents if children didn't have to be taken to Teignmouth to spend time at a well-designed, well-maintained and FUN play park, by having the same here. 

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
17 Aug 2016 08:24

You are quite right, Margaret, we should strive to maintain and improve what is best about Dawlish rather than ape Teignmouth and Paignton. In that way we can attract people here from further afield and grow the size of the tourist cake - rather than merely pinch back a slice from a neighbour.

 

The Town Centre Masterplan was written in 2008 and highlights the challenges to be faced from out-of-town retail and falling tourism. Little has changed since then - and money still needs to be spent to turn around areas and attractions which are underperforming or underdeveloped. Let's look at these before we consider damaging for ever one of our town's most important amenities.

5 Agrees
BEE9
BEE9
17 Aug 2016 09:25

Spending millions on infrastructure to bring Dawlish up to par with other successful tourist locations to attract the tourist, but unable to get funds to spend on essential services - what a croc. Clean the streets and fix all the basics first. There's no point in building fancy things on a poor foundation.

Those in charge seem to like wasting millions on non essentials, but find it hard to get on and do the core responsibilities of their office.

4 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
17 Aug 2016 10:24

The Sainsbury's development S106 money that has been set aside can only be used (as above) for "projects aimed at sustaining the vitality and viability of Dawlish town centre and including works to meet objectives contained in the Town Centre Masterplan dated April 2008 as published by the Dawlish Community Trust". This definition would not preclude projects outside of the 'heart' of the town centre, nor (it could be argued) outside of the town centre itself. There is a point in time by which the money should be spent (circa 2021, I believe) with any remaining funds returned to the developer (with interest) beyond that.

 

But you're right, BEE9, we are being let down on the simple things like regular maintenance of verges which have been the subject of a 'pass-the-parcel' routine between Devon County Council, Teignbridge District Council and Dawlish Town Council since 2015, due to Government cuts. Needless to say, the extra money to be found for such services will ultimately end up coming from you and I. 

Lynne
Lynne
17 Aug 2016 10:32

For info -  click on the link below to read the minutes of the town council's Civic Amenities Committee meeting held in June when the issue of the playpark was on the agenda.

  http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/1968_2097641342.pdf

 

Public participation and item 4 are the relevant bits to read.

Morty Vicker
Morty Vicker
17 Aug 2016 11:54

To those against the play park, may I ask what you think the S106 money should be spent on instead? That's not a loaded question, but a genuine request for constructive ideas. Thank you. 

Barbarawils68
Barbarawils68
17 Aug 2016 12:04

If they are going to put the play park on the lawn, maybe they should put it where the bowling green is and then create a new bowling green where the play park is in the manor grounds!  Lovely setting and at least the players would get peace and quiet.  As for parking and toilet facilities it is not much further than where they are now.

1 Agree
BEE9
BEE9
17 Aug 2016 12:25

@Barbarawils68 - and see how quickly it gets vandalised, use the play park that already exists..lazy parents.

4 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
17 Aug 2016 12:45

I am not against the concept of a single Play Park in Dawlish, Morty (although a split permutation that would allow smaller children needing supervision to play separately from older more robust children on the loose, would seem preferrable) - but if we are talking about investment in the heart of the town centre then a new traditional-styled bandstand that would not have its back turned on the upper lawn area would seem a very good start. The Play Park proposal appears to have tapped a retro theme to good effect - so why not go back to 'the good old days' (but wired for modern technology) for a new bandstand?

2 Agrees
Barbarawils68
Barbarawils68
17 Aug 2016 17:06

There is less chance of a play park being vandalised if it can be seen from multiple houses, see the below:

http://www.playengland.org.uk/media/70684/design-for-play.pdf

4. Choose a location with informal oversight The degree to which the play area needs to be overlooked will depend on the individual site but in general play provision is best placed close to other facilities where there are usually people about. Two key criteria for locating successful play spaces are that children want to ‘see and be seen’ and ‘be where it’s at’ (Wheway and Millward, 1997).

5. Locate play spaces near other facilities Locating play spaces beside community facilities, such as libraries, adds value to these facilities and can increase usage of the play space. In larger parks or open spaces, it can be helpful to locate play spaces close to cafés or toilets, which help bring people into the park and make it feel safer and more sociable.

Mcjrpc
Mcjrpc
17 Aug 2016 17:27

Can't get my head around the Council minutes saying families 'travelled to use the play park in Teignmouth'.  So people lug their kids to Teignmouth just to use the park because Dawlish doesn't have one?   I doubt that very much. 

DJ
DJ
17 Aug 2016 17:54

You can doubt it all you want, but I guarantee that it will be true that people will travel to Teignmouth for the play park.  Just as I used to travel with a group of Mums to Decoy for our children to play at the park there before the Teignmouth play park was upgraded.  My children were just about too old for it by the time they finished it. The Teignmouth play park works really well and is very popular. Does that mean an identical one should be built on the Lawn in Dawlish?  Well, no it doesn't. Is Tucks Plot the right Location?  Again, I'd say no. I wouldn't have wanted to use a play park essentially built on an oversized roundabout with vehicles travelling in close proximity on all sides and if the traffic is slow, them breathing in all the resulting fumes the vehicles would give off.  As there already is a good play park in Dawlish, why not spend some of the money to make it even better, put good signs up to point the way for those unfamiliar with the town, and leave the Lawn for other activities? Just my thoughts anyway. 

18 Agrees
ZIGGY
ZIGGY
07 Sep 2016 08:17

The Play Park Public Consultation results are finalised and are being presented to the Council today at the Manor 7pm.

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
07 Sep 2016 10:56

Well let's hope the current councillors don't make a mess of Dawlish as they did with Dawlish Warren in 2001 when they tore down the individual shops and replaced them with the monstrosity we see there today. They stripped Dawlish Warren of its character to create a monster. It has taken the hard work of the traders in the Warren to bring back some of that character but that has taken years to achieve. 

8 Agrees
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
09 Sep 2016 10:34

I see that the play park has been given the initial first rubber stamp.

Not surprised, the questionaire was loaded towards having the park on The Lawn.

Not one question asked ....do you want a play park on The Lawn?

Another waste of money to duplicate a facility that already exists in the local area.

Although no money for essential services, I know, that comes out of another purse, but filled by the same tax payer's

 

 

4 Agrees
Matt
Matt
10 Sep 2016 12:46

Has anyone considered using a land train, a visitor attraction 

that is used in Torquay ( Ist Jan - 31st Dec ) 

This could be used not only as an added attraction for dawlish

that I am certain visitors (and locals) would enjoy, especially if

there was a drop off point at the Manor Play Park & lawns.

Doing this, if it was cost effective, would save disrupting our

lovely lawn, a valuable and much enjoyed central Dawlish

attraction.

For info on the Torquay model please ring 07980269352

2 Agrees
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
10 Sep 2016 14:12

On the Eyes Of Dawlish facebook page they had the following from Teignmouth and Dawlish Community Interest Company:-

 

page 1 letter

 

How is 77% of Dawlish residents equated from a questionaire that only had a total, of Dawlish and Teignbdrige residents, of 680 completed forms. The 2001 census by the goverment gives a figure of over 11,000 residents just for Dawlish.

 

Even if all the 680  forms had been completed by DAWLISH RESIDENTS and all 680 forms were for the park, which they weren't, That would calculate to 680/11000*100= 6.18%. A far cry from the BOLD and CAPITAL Banner of 77% of Dawlish residents voted in favour of a play park on The Lawn.

What a croc, and on top of that the questionnaire did not ask if ANYONE DID NOT want a play park on The Lawn, just where and how big.

I find this questionnaire to be in questionable doubt as to its validity based on the above.

 

Dos anyone know where all the comments can be viewed that were part of this socalled questionanaire?

 

page 2 stats

3 Agrees
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
10 Sep 2016 22:15

@Matt, i suggested this when i was a councillor and was laughed out of the chamber!! so glad someone else thinks it's a good idea. i suggested it as a transport solution for coach parties from sandy lane into town and back and maybe also the warren. 

1 Agree
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
10 Sep 2016 22:23

You make really valid points DEEDOODLE. When the first questionnaire for the terrible slug on the lawn was presented to council in 2014 those questions too were so biased it took your breath away. Fortunately there were enough bright sparks on the council at the time to realise what a croc they were and the questions were rewritten in order to present residents with a fair representation of options, and we all know the outcome of that!! The questionnaire for the playpark needs to be challenged, particularly as the questions were agreed at an additional meeting of the council, which might not have been legal. 

 

680 completed questionnaires is laughable and I should be astonished the council have agreed to progress this issue based on so few responses, but I'm not! 

1 Agree
leatash
leatash
10 Sep 2016 22:46

Matt - Permission for a land train has been sought from individuals in the recent past and permission has been refused as has permission for various attractions on the beach.  Now come on people we had a decision on remodelling the Strand with as many votes its just how it is at the end of the day most people dont give a monkeys as long as it doesnt effect them.  I didnt even know about the questionnaire but would have voted yes.

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
10 Sep 2016 22:58

@leatash, your last sentence says it all! at least when there was a proposal to build the slug on the lawn there was a full and open consultation with presentations in various places across the whole parish. people did know about the proposals and far many more than 680 completed questionnaires and voted not to build on the lawn. 

7 Agrees
Paul
Paul
12 Sep 2016 14:02

Why are the swings and seesaw in the water?

Lawn Play Park

 

leatash
leatash
12 Sep 2016 17:46

Looks great i can see it working well and attracting families to the lawn area.

4 Agrees
Brooklyn Bridge
Brooklyn Bridge
12 Sep 2016 19:02

I haven't really taken any notice to be honest of this white elephant that's planned. In my opinion what a waste of wonderful open space. To see families having picnics with their children and playing ball on the grassy area. Yes, it may be used during a couple of months during summer but for the most part the cost will outweigh it's use. Once it's put in place it will be vandalised I have no doubt, as someone has already posted. Dawlish has a unique area that many towns would be envious of. Would it bring in more money I doubt that very much. But It would seem that it looks like it's going to happen...... What a shame.

12 Agrees
Carer
Carer
13 Sep 2016 06:43

It will attract thousands of people and they will all be using the lovely new cycle path from the Warren to get here. cheeky

1 Agree
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
13 Sep 2016 11:09

@Carer - (13 sep 2016 06:43hrs)  i take it your comment is one of sarcasm!

1 Agree
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
13 Sep 2016 11:28

I do not believe it is in the best interest of Dawlish, the local people or visitors to take up a sizeable portion of The Lawn for the exclusive use of those who have small children. As Brooklyn Bridge has rightly said the usage would be small, compared to its current configuration as a LAWN. Use the play park a short walk away.

If this white elephant ever gets built, what else will be built on The Lawn - a creche centre! maybe a building that looks like a termite or  a massive ferris wheel, why not all three?

Sarcastic, indeed I am.

Its about time the local council got its head on straight and started sorting out the underlying failings of Dawlish's infrastructure. Than burying its head in the sand with these non essential, unrealistic projects that cost a small fortune of taxpayer's money.

5 Agrees
S
S
13 Sep 2016 12:31

Why not have better and clear signage to the current play park at the manor and also upgrade it? The manor is probably never found by visitors. If you could put in a place to sell teas and coffees and snacks too then maybe visitors would use it and would be a lovely place to sit for the afternoon in the summer.

8 Agrees
leatash
leatash
13 Sep 2016 16:13

I wonder how many Dawlish residents actually use the lawn area ??. I have lived around the lawns for the past 31 years and have probably used the lawn area 2 or 3 times and by that i mean i have sat on the grass for no more than 10 minutes and i bet i am not alone.

2 Agrees
Brooklyn Bridge
Brooklyn Bridge
13 Sep 2016 17:23

Why not just dig the whole of the Lawn up and have allotments and use the wonderful bandstand as shed for tools and while they are at it take down all the trees and put black iron railings around the whole lot, of course I'm joking. Who is going to take care of this play ground, who is going to pick up all the rubbish that would be left, we have enough of a litter problem in this town as it is. And while we are at it we would need an ambulance on stand by. And don't forget the legal signage stating using this area is at your own risk. Then of course the nightly vandals will be swinging around leaving glass bottles broken or otherwise.

7 Agrees
leatash
leatash
13 Sep 2016 23:53

Now that would attract me to the lawns, an allotment of my own, what a great idea it never crossed my mind, it would certainly work for me. The added benefits of keeping us oldies fit and healthy with all that digging and we could produce enough veg to feed Dawlish.  And of course, the allotment keepers would have the added benefit of eating healthy fresh veg, saving the NHS money and making appointments at the Dr surgery a lot easier... and I am being serious! 

DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
14 Sep 2016 09:03

Have a section of The Lawn fenced off with a purpose built habitat so the visitors to Dawlish can view the Dawlish drinking club in its natural environment. With the proper fencing it would make it safe for all ages to view this rather unique and interesting species whilst it goes about its daily activities, just a thought. Build it and they will come......

2 Agrees
Matt
Matt
14 Sep 2016 12:52

Are land trains expensive to purchase, Torquay has there train currently up for sale at £90,000,

quite a lot of money,- but I do know of one going up for auction within the next 4 weeks at a 

suggested guide price of £23,000 - £25,000 - comments anyone ?

4 Agrees
Dil
Dil
14 Sep 2016 13:44

I think it would be an excellent idea, keep and enhance the current play area at the Manor. Get the holiday parks to purchase/sponsor/donate a land train as I'm sure if it were routed to use the coast road from the Warren then a lot of their holiday makers would use it, re-investing in the communities.  They can donate individually if they can't work together, along with any other contributors, I'm sure it could be coordinated for them to save any squabbles!

7 Agrees
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
15 Sep 2016 12:03

I agree. I think a land train between Dawlish Warren and Dawlish, calling in at Sandy Lane car park to pick up and drop off coach drivers, would be a popular attraction and be well used. We just need someone on the town council brave enough to lead on this project and bring it to fruition. The playpark will be a desolate eyesore for at least half of the year. 

8 Agrees
Dil
Dil
15 Sep 2016 12:42

After hearing a 9/10 year old youngsters foul mouthed bullying yesterday as they left one of our schools, I have grave concerns regarding the spoiling of our peaceful, brook area. Yes he's someone locals little darling, but all he was gearing up for was joining the Happy hut brigade. I just can't bear to think of the screaming noise and the language eminating from such a park. Talking to colleagues from Exeter, they purposely choose to come to Dawlish for an afternoon because of the peace and tranquility, if they wanted noise etc then they'd go to Teignmouth.  Lets try and please everyone, keep the tranquility and enhance the manor play area with better access

11 Agrees
Willkilner
Willkilner
17 Jun 2017 11:32

On a recent visit to Dawlish, it was great to see how well the well-maintained patch of grass at the top end of the lawn (between the bandstand and the bowling green) was being used. Three different groups of children of varying age groups were having fun playing ball games, a number of families were having a picnic and a group of creative arts types were decorating a large canvas. It was a wonderful vibrant scene. Young were mixing with old, locals were mixing with tourists. With the main section of the lawn so often taken up with fairground rides or other event stalls during school holidays, I couldn't help thinking it would be folly to dig up such a pleasant piece of the Lawn to make way for climbing frames and other apparatus. Quite frankly, it's best left just the way it is! 

11 Agrees
flo
flo
17 Jun 2017 14:05

What's happening with this, is it still going ahead?  I do think the manor park should be highlighted more for tourists, it's a great play park for younger kids.

4 Agrees
Willkilner
Willkilner
18 Jun 2017 09:49

Yes, I agree. That would be the place to invest in a new facility for young children. Dawlish deserves a top class play area for young kids, just not on the Lawn and not at the expense of an area that's already much-loved and well-used 

7 Agrees
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
19 Jun 2017 23:18

Let's hope our current councillors read this and take heed! The whole of the lawn area is so well used by families and individuals of all ages, why would we want to emulate other towns who have not got what we have? The lawn is precious but it's exactly that preciousness that some councillors object to and want to destroy. 

5 Agrees
TheObserver
TheObserver
23 Jun 2017 13:16

Well I still think the manor should be looked at and made into a better use of space and security. Or look at re-developing tucks plot.

3 Agrees
FredBassett
FredBassett
23 Jun 2017 19:37

The ideal place for a park is surerly down the Warren, not in the middle of the town centre. These never ending campaigns by various groups to ruin the lawn need to cease. The lawn is for the use of ALL the people of Dawlish and its visitors and not just individual groups of people with specific self interested needs.

A really special park could be built on he Warren, safe from traffic, noise acceptable and open and accessable to all. One missing link would be local bus service to run down there. Surely the holiday parks could help finance this

4 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
24 Jun 2017 07:19

I think the argument to have the playpark in the town centre, on the lawn, was/is driven by the belief that the increase in visitor numbers to the town centre (because of the playpark being sited there) would be beneficial to the town centre shops.

Therefore, if that is/was the central and driving argument for 1) Dawlish needing a new playpark and 2) where it should be sited, it follows that any counter argument that a new playpark should be sited anywhere else and which crucially doesn't seek to address the 'helping the town centre shops' argument falls flat. 

 

But if anyone knows any different to the above please post what you know on here.

 

On the question of the holiday parks financing a bus. Why should they? Surely it is in the holiday parks' interests to keep holiday makers on their sites spending money on/in the holiday parks' facilities.   

  

DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
24 Jun 2017 13:40

The play park for The Lawn is not needed nor wanted by most Dawlish residents, I would suspect.

The dubious, so called public consultation was a sham, whose questions merely asked where the park should go without any questions asking if it was wanted in the first place. To top it off the comments that you were allowed to make on particular question, in my case i stated numerous times it was not needed, seem to have disappeared into the ether.

I commented early in this post about the dubious claims of this public consultation results, that being the 77% of Dawlish residents were in favour of a play park on The Lawn,  and the way the results had been manipulated into some massive percentage of Dawlish folk wanting this white elephant for the few who are obviously to lazy to walk to the play park near the manor house. My earlier post is 10 sept 2016 14:12hrs on this thread.

3 Agrees
flo
flo
24 Jun 2017 17:10

I'm still not sure what the current situation is in relation to the building of a park.

Lynne
Lynne
29 Jun 2017 19:03

@flo -suggest a dawlish tdc councillor gets contacted for an update on the playpark as the lawn is in the ownership of tdc.  

TheObserver
TheObserver
30 Jun 2017 13:45

@Lynne - can you not let know dawlish town council or a tdc councillor in dawlish know, for an update? what does @flo have to do it?

 

Who organised the campaign in the first place?

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
30 Jun 2017 15:55

@TheObserver - what @flo has to do with it is that I got the impression that @flo wanted to know what the current situation is re the building of the playpark. So I suggested to her/him (or anyone else for that matter) how they might find out.

 

2 Agrees
MadameDuplicitous
MadameDuplicitous
05 Jul 2017 14:42

@TheObserver - for your lynneflo they are one of the same person 

Just my impression/opinion devil

3 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
05 Jul 2017 16:29

@flo are you me?

Just thought I'd ask as I know I'm not you.

1 Agree
burneside
burneside
05 Jul 2017 16:32

MadameDuplicitous only registered on the site today, and I already have a pretty good idea who they are.

5 Agrees
Stark Ross
Stark Ross
05 Jul 2017 23:09

Don't be shy, tell us please. I love a bit of gossip me. 

From The Grave
From The Grave
10 Jul 2017 08:44

Who is MadameDuplicitous?

TheObserver
TheObserver
13 Jul 2017 14:24

Flo and Lynne, how do you have time to write from two accounts?

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
13 Jul 2017 15:02

@The Observer  -Sorry, not able to answer your question as I only have the one account.

1 Agree
TheObserver
TheObserver
13 Jul 2017 15:16

perhaps @flo can explain her side of the story? no just kidding, wish we all used our real and full names sometimes. i only know who maraget is now.

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
13 Jul 2017 16:20

So is 'The Observer' your real name? 

1 Agree
TheObserver
TheObserver
14 Jul 2017 10:34

yes of course it is. let me check with my birth certificate. so do you want me to answer the question @Lynne ?

Lynne
Lynne
14 Jul 2017 13:07

Well, if The Observer is indeed your real name, the one on your birth certificate, then you have answered my question.

 

1263
1263
14 Jul 2017 13:22

Were going off subject here, back to the main point where is the best mackerel  fishing..............

TheObserver
TheObserver
17 Jul 2017 13:05

Aparently the manor play park is good for mackerel.

Lynne
Lynne
17 Jul 2017 17:23

The town council's Finance and General Purposes Committee is meeting this Thursday (20th).

Item 5 on the agenda concerns how funding might be found for buiding a playpark on the lawn.

Meeting starts 7.00pm

1 Agree
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
17 Jul 2017 23:14

Let's hope they don't find the funding! 

2 Agrees
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
18 Jul 2017 09:27

The last thing the 'town council' does is listen to the people of Dawlish. The questionaire that went out as to WHERE on The Lawn do you want it, rather than asking one additional question 'do you want a play park on The Lawn'. I presume is the basis for the town council going ahead with this waste of money and permanent destruction of The Lawn.

As only under 7% of the local people even filled in this questionaire and that included people outside of Dawlish itself.  both my wife and I completed the form stating we do not want a play park on The Lawn in the comments section. Surprise, surprise all the comments were seemingly ignored when the results, that stated nearly 80% of people of Dawlish were inagreement for the playpark on The Lawn, were published.

This entire fiasco stinks more than a load of dumped fish.

Millions spent on Dawlish over the last couple of years with none of it actually improving Dawlish for the Dawlish people, just one white elephant after another. I suppose we could always advertise Dawlish as a unique tourist destination for those who wish to see a rare herd of white elephants and a native species of primitive homo sapiens that rely on alcohol as their only form of sustance that can be viewed wandering in their natural habitat on The Lawn.

 

3 Agrees
Duckileaks
Duckileaks
18 Jul 2017 12:01

Deedoodle is spot on, the comments haven't been analysed.  The person who wrote the questions is the same one who is driving this - of course the result is going to be in favour, a questionnaire is always going to skewed in one way or another.

It's shocking that of all the spaces on the Lawn one of the two most used is considered, it should be on the fiasco/piazza which is hardly used, or take the big flower bed from in front of the TIC.

2 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
18 Jul 2017 12:14

Lobbying of the town councillors needed then?

1 Agree
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
18 Jul 2017 12:37

Something is needed.

JD2017
JD2017
18 Jul 2017 14:54

Well I'm one that believes that a play park, in a relatively small and unused part of the Lawn is what is needed. There's no need for me to list the reasons why because that's been covered elsewhere. 

burneside
burneside
18 Jul 2017 16:23

But it's not unused, is it?

2 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
18 Jul 2017 17:43

I'm pretty certain that the part of the F&GP meeting where funding for the proposed playpark will be discussed is open to the public. I think the public can also make comments about agenda items before the meeting starts. .So..........If anyone wants to make their thoughts known (pro or con) to the councillors then the public participation part of the meeting might be a place to do it.

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
18 Jul 2017 22:45

Let's hope the people of Dawlish speak up and speak out and save the lawn from the ********* in power at the moment. Why do they feel the need to simply copy what other towns have done without any thought to the appropriateness to Dawlish? 

2 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
19 Jul 2017 08:49

I believe the push for the playpark to be on the lawn (as opposed to anywhere else) is driven by the belief that it will increase trade for the town centre businesses.

The argument for a new playpark was then supplemented by those who take their children/grandchidren over to T'mouth to use the one there. 

There is then the argument that playparks should ideally be overlooked by houses as this reduces the risk of  playparks being vandalised/unsocial  activities taking place within them. (Whether or not that is the case I wouldn't like to say)

 

Please note that the above comments are not me justifying the proposal rather it is me explaining the proposal.

DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
19 Jul 2017 10:43

I think the statement 'will increase trade for the town centre businesses' has been a little over used in Dawlish this last year or 2. Over a million spent on a dirty stained NEW pavement to replace the old concrete slabs, but now look dirtier than the origninal slabs.....and more business due to the new layout of the high street, ...I think not.... oh!, definetly less parking on the high street.

Millions on a new cycle path THROUGH, being the operative word, Dawlish.....more business for local trader's maybe a few cups of tea, some fish and chips and possibly a puncture repair kit from Breaking Wind.......not exactly value for money in my book.

A completely good play park just up the road, safe from vehicular traffic flying past. Most of us know that IF, and god forbid I hope not, that this white elephant gets built. It will be home to the D.D.&D.C for their amusement and used by those it was built for for a few weeks through out the year and out of bounds section of The Lawn for everyone else forever.

The questionaire that seems to be being used to progress this through was a sham and so outlandish in its one sided questions as to the play park location, rather than ask the very simple question.....DO YOU WANT A play park on The Lawn? Those that generated this ridiculous questionaire were most probably well aware of the resounding majority would have said NO as many most probably did in the comment section of most of the questions on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where are those comment now, obviously pushed to one side and away from public eye's I would imagine.

Since moving to Dawlish over 15 years ago I have seen a steady decline in the overall maintenance of what is essentially a beautiful little seaside town tucked amongst the hills of Devon. Dawlish has the potential to be a little jewel for visitor's, but not whilst those who have the purse strings continue to get side tracked by unrealistic projects that are both against the will of the people of Dawlish, but are so glaring a waste of money at a time when basic service cuts are destroying this town's appeal to both residents and visitor's alike.

I am aware that outside factors by distict councils. government bodies dictate what can and cannot be spent on this or that and that the funds for certain projects come from this or that, but what annoys me the most about this excuse is it all comes from our taxes that we pay and where we live is being ruined by this political claptrap.

 

Obviously the above is only my own opinion and no disrespect is intended to any other contributers or readers of this site, etc, etc,etc.

 

 

 

 

4 Agrees
Dil
Dil
19 Jul 2017 13:29

I am also surprised how people with children would even want the park there, with the ever increasing and blatant drug dealing, bad language and drinking abuse. It's no point crying foul after the event when a child has been swayed or affected in some way by what is currently about or moaning about the fact that there is broken glass/bottles in there from the previous evenings gathering and expecting more police to have been monitoring it. Surely it would be better to be away from that or is it that it would be easier for the parents to be in the pubs whilst children amuse themselves in the play park! There is a problem in Dawlish along with many other towns at the moment and I personally think it would be extremely irresponsible to even consider it, besides it has been lovely to see the tranquil nature of its use over the last few weeks.

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
19 Jul 2017 14:16

This was all being discussed at various town council meetings around about this time last year first at the Civic Amenites Committee (CAC) and then at full council.

 

There was a full council meeting held on 6th July last year when the playpark was an agenda item. You can read the minutes of this meeting online by going onto the town council's website, then go to meetings/agendas/minutes and then go to the archive page.

Click on full council minutes for the 6.7.16 meeting. The comments made by the public at the beginning of the meeting are recorded. Then scroll down the page until you get to item 43 here you will find references to the report produced by the town centre manager concerning the provision of a playpark on the lawn.

Lynne
Lynne
27 Jul 2017 14:04

Does anyone know the outcome of last Thursday's F&GP meeting where how to fund the proposed playpark was on the agenda. 

DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
27 Jul 2017 14:46

I see no valid reason why the town council should even be discussing  funding for this play park until the residents of Dawlish can say yes/no to this. The survey was a sham and not one question asked if it was even wanted on The Lawn, just WHERE on The Lawn.

Those who stated that it was NOT wanted on The Lawn could only put their feelings in the comments section of the one sided questions. Those comments seem to have been pushed to one side.

We don't need a play park on The Lawn, there is a perfectly good play park a couple of 100 yards away.

In my opinion this is how the self absorbed Dawlish Town Council just do what they want and ignore the residents...need I give examples!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and don't tell me that it was different councillors from the past..it is Dawlish Town Council - end off.

4 Agrees
leatash
leatash
27 Jul 2017 17:15

I would rather the Lawns be made into a nice car park with free parking for town centre residents.

monty
monty
27 Jul 2017 18:27

I thoght everyone was aware that play parks attract teens in the evening. Who will no doubt vandalise it. Somewhere else for the druggies  and alcoholics to gather. 

5 Agrees
JD2017
JD2017
27 Jul 2017 22:37

 Yep. All teenagers are vandals. FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The Teignmouth (where certain correspondents spend more time than in Dawlish) play park doesn't get vandalised, so why would one in Dawlish???????????????????????? 

Such ignorance and prejudice by so-called adults says more about the elderly than the youth. 

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
28 Jul 2017 07:45

Funny (as in co-incidental) that you should say what you do about the T'mouth playpark and vandalism @JD2017 as I was wondering to myself only yesterday whether or not it (the T'mouth playpark) is subject to vandalism or not.  I imagine it would be very easy to find out.    

 

 

1 Agree
leatash
leatash
28 Jul 2017 08:54

I would have thought that a play park in the town centre would be less of a target for vandals than the one at the Manor and yes kids get up to no good but the same applies to lots of adults i witness it every Friday and Saturday night.

2 Agrees
Duckileaks
Duckileaks
28 Jul 2017 14:10

DTC are caving in to pressure from the Chamber of Trade who want the play park under the impression that it will bring more business.  The Town Centre Development Manager is pushing for this too.

Yet the people who actually use the Lawn like the Charities, the Carnival, the Air Show (which may go ahead again) are being virtually ignored.

To lose that big chunk of land will have a massive affect on all those groups.

Put it on that blasted Piazza which is little more than a vanity project for the Councillor that was most vocal about it at the time.  That space is pointless - no electric or water just paving, not really ideal for markets etc

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
28 Jul 2017 15:00

I heard (so its hearsay!) that last year, when this issue was raised at the town council meetings, it was almost as though the issue had been predecided (to have a playpark on the lawn) by certain councillors and that on top of that discussion of this topic in the council chamber was curtailed.

From what I heard (again hearsay) there were councillors for and against the project. And the divide, I believe, was not necessarily on party political lines - or non-party political lines in the case of Independent councillors.

But as I wasn't in the public gallery when all this was (allegedly) going on I cannot confirm or otherwise what I have written above. 

 

Why can't the compromise be to have it where the piazza is presently located as Duckileaks suggests?  (It is also near the toilets - very handy).   

 

For info - this link should take you to the minutes of a Civic Amenities Committee (CAC) meeting held last summer. http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/1968_2097641342.pdf 

webmaster
webmaster
28 Jul 2017 15:16
Brooklyn Bridge
Brooklyn Bridge
28 Jul 2017 16:35

Lynne, can't have it where the piazza is as you will need the approval from the smackheads and drunks.  And they have the approval from the police and Teignbridge council to be there.

1 Agree
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