General Discussion

A questionable butterfly

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DiamondLife
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Joan
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Julias Sachin
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leatash
leatash
31 Oct 2017 13:33

I am surprised no one has picked this up planning application 17/01944/ful do we really need another food outlet serving food from two shipping containers on TUCKS PLOTT.

1 Agree
TheObserver
TheObserver
31 Oct 2017 14:22

No we do not, this has been discussed under the Tucks Plot thread, and no it's stupid, the whole town shortly is going to be ruined more than it already is. 

5 Agrees
majorp
majorp
31 Oct 2017 15:08

I don't really know what Dawlish (Dullish) was like over twenty years ago, but a holiday maker has just told me that he is not coming back again after coming here regularly for over thirty years. It has been ruined he said.

Quite what he meant by tha, I didn't have tme to find out.

DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
31 Oct 2017 15:18

Nothing wrong with more places to have a drink and a bite in Dawlish. I'm sure the massive influx of cyclist's will need filling up before continuing out of Dawlish! Oh, and not forgetting the wave after wave of parents coming to the new mega playpark on The Lawn. With well less than 100 objections logged, which is literally a zero percent of the Dawlish population I expect it will be approved....remember who put the lease up for grabs in the first place..now who was that?

 

http://gis.teignbridge.gov.uk/TeignbridgePlanningOnline/SearchResults.aspx?SearchMap=Map&CurApplic=17/01944/FUL&DecApplic=&CurAppeal=&DecAppeal=

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
31 Oct 2017 15:51

Just a point of info (which I'm pretty certain I put on the other thread concerning this) which is that the lawn area is in the ownership of TDC and this bit of the lawn has previously been leased out by TDC (in other words it has given TDC an income) as a crazy golf area. 

 

So.......there is a precedent for the area in question to be used as

1. a place of a crazy of golf amenity

and

2. a source of income for TDC

 

As TDC own the land in question the planning application will have to be decided by councillors not officers.

 

With regard to the food outlet that is part of the application. Given that the cafe (Pirate's Chest?) that was the sea side of the viaduct is no longer with us might there be an argument that the proposed new outlet is merely one that is replacing the one that has recently been lost? So in terms of the number of food outlets in the town the number will not be increased but returned to the same number as when the Pirate's Chest operated.

 

Please note that the above comments should be interpreted as observations. I am making no argument pro or con the application.

 

Diana Mond
Diana Mond
31 Oct 2017 22:07

Lynne has made some excellent observations. 

I would also add that the number of eating establishments in Dawlish has been unnecessarily increased by those places of worship (so-called “churches”) turning themselves into cafes. 

As for the alleged tourist that apparently said to majorp that the town has been ruined - well let’s be honest, it’s hardly changed during the 30 years that they’ve supposedly been coming down here (and yet most on here moan about TDC not investing here!!).

Dawlish (not Dullish) definitely hasn’t been ruined. Yes, it could have been improved more, but sadly that didn’t materialise for reasons that some would do well to reflect upon. 

leatash
leatash
01 Nov 2017 00:23

It certainly has changed in 30 years we had a great range of shops butchers there were 4, wet fish shop, 3 veg shops mens outfitters remember Woolworths and Somerfields, 2 jewellers, shops along Park Road.  I remember Dawlish packed with visitors from Easter to the end of September the flowers around the Lawns were amazing and the town was cleaned daily the brook was dredged on a regular basis and was full of large brown trout some 3 or 4 pounds. Dawlish has changed beyond recognition its certainly not the same place it was 30 years ago.

5 Agrees
TheObserver
TheObserver
01 Nov 2017 10:02

I must say that if you write down what shops we have as you walk through Dawlish, well it paints a nice picture actually, the problem is the shops that we do have are not what we need. It's not that the town has changed, it hasen't, people have changed, goverment has changed, council has changed....they want to spend less, gain more, and I'm afraid that does not work. It's a shame that Tucks Plot is set to be ruined, like the Lawn will be. I still stand by the fact, let's repalce what we have that needs replacing and look after the assesets we already have that are turning to rack and ruin. 

2 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
06 Nov 2017 15:30

The applicant has now revised the original plans.

What is now being proposed is on the agenda at this coming Thursday's (9th November) town council planning committee meeting.

Click on this link to see agenda.

http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/2297_703124102.pdf

Lynne
Lynne
07 Nov 2017 10:56

There have been a lot of objections lodged with TDC with regard to this planning application - both the original  and the revised one.

 

I wonder if any of those who object to this application will avail themselves of their being able to speak about their concerns at the town council planning committee meeting being held this Thursday?

 

(the issue of the route of the cycle path along/around the lawn area is also an agenda item. Another contentious matter. And as with the above - another opportunity to express concerns, verbally, at the meeting).  

TheObserver
TheObserver
07 Nov 2017 12:52

Well I sincerely hope this does not go ahead. Admittidly I can't go to the Meeting due to other commitments, but I hope people do turn up. 

Lynne
Lynne
12 Nov 2017 13:05

Can someone who knows about the location of town centre things (majorp?/leatash?) explain the location of the existing sewage tanks  that have to be emptied throughout the year in relation to where it is proposed new crazy golf cafe will be.

I am told these tanks are located underneath the site of the present crazy golf site. Is that right?

 

UPWITHIT
UPWITHIT
12 Nov 2017 13:53

Yes the tanks are underneath the crazy golf, I seen it dug out.

Lynne
Lynne
12 Nov 2017 14:31

So the proposal is to have a cafe right on top of (or as near as dammit) sewage tanks that have to be emptied throughout the year?

 

What time of day do these things normally get emptied?

 

majorp
majorp
12 Nov 2017 15:12

Lynne, It is not the tanks have to be emptied, it is the pumps that get blocked with things that are put down the toilets, and you would be amazed at the sort of things that can block those pumps. Those pumps have to be changed if they are not working properly, as it is the pumps that push the sewage to the treatment works at Timaru.

leatash
leatash
12 Nov 2017 15:16

There are a number of large pumps that pump sewerage up to the Sandy Lane tanks that are in the car park. The pumps do get blocked at times with wet wipes fat etc and they remove them with a crane for cleaning the last time was probably 10 to 12 months ago. If my memory serves me correctly there are large tanks that extend from the road under the corner of Tucks Plot but access to them is on the road. So to clarify there are tanks at Tucks Plot but it is a pumping station moving sewerage to Sandy Lane and it is then pumped onwards to the sewerage works at Warren Road.

majorp
majorp
12 Nov 2017 15:22

Wet wipes do not break down and they are one of the causes that block the pumps. Plastic bags are another. If people do not understand the mechanics of our sewage system, then anything goes goes down with the flush.

leatash
leatash
12 Nov 2017 15:29

The planning application was refused on Thursday 9th November by the Town Councill so its now in the hands of Teignbridge Planning lets hope they also refuse it.

Joan
Joan
12 Nov 2017 16:16

Just n aside to Diana abut the "so called church". If you mean the one on the Strand, thats The Strand Community Centre". They do rent the space to the church for Sunday services, but only in the same way as they rent the space to the Karate club or Slimming world. Its a registered charity that does lots of good work and always in need of volunteers, a bit like the Alice Cross Centre in Teignmouth.

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
13 Nov 2017 12:08

This planning application is to be decided at next Tuesday's (21st November) TDC Planning Committee meeting.

Officer recommendation is that it should be approved. 

majorp
majorp
13 Nov 2017 13:19

Why does that officer dealing with this application, think it should be approved??????????????

TheObserver
TheObserver
13 Nov 2017 14:22

Well lets see what happens, It will go ahead, because anthing that shouldnt does. 

Lynne
Lynne
13 Nov 2017 15:04

This link https://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/media/6067/pl-21-nov-2017-agenda-reports.pdf should take you to the agenda for next Tuesday's meeting.

Scroll down to page 31 for the officer's report on this application and why it is being recommended for approval.

Lynne
Lynne
17 Nov 2017 08:35

If you have strong feelings about this matter it might be worth while contacting one or more of our TDC councillors between now and when the planning committee meets on Tuesday (21st). If you are able/have the time you could also attend this meeting by way of the public gallery.  

See below for how to contact the councillors.

Note that Cllr Clemens is the Exec Member of TDC for Planning and Housing and that according to the TDC website Cllrs Mayne, Price and Prowse are planning committee members.

 

Humphrey Clemens

 

 

About this councillor

Party: Conservative

Ward: Dawlish South West

Parishes: Dawlish (South West)

Contact Information

Address: Manor Farm, Holcombe, Dawlish, EX7 0JT

Email: humphrey.clemens@teignbridge.gov.uk

Phone: 01626 863020

 

Edward Hockin

 

 

About this councillor

Party: Conservative

Ward: Dawlish Central & North East

Parishes: Dawlish (Central and North East Wards)

Contact Information

Address: Aalsmeer, 14A Exeter Road, Dawlish, EX7 0AG

Email: edward.hockin@teignbridge.gov.uk

Phone: 01626 862088

 

Lisa Mayne

 

 

About this councillor

Party: Conservative

Ward: Dawlish Central & North East

Parishes: Dawlish (Central and North East Wards)

Contact Information

Address: Treetops, Beach Road, Dawlish Warren, EX7 0NF

Email: lisa.mayne@teignbridge.gov.uk

Phone: 01626 865680

Committee responsibilities

Overview & Scrutiny 
Planning

 

Graham Price

 

 

About this councillor

Party: Conservative

Ward: Dawlish Central & North East

Parishes: Dawlish (Central and North East Wards)

Contact Information

Address: Mewstone, The Mews, Dawlish, EX7 9DW

Email: graham.price@teignbridge.gov.uk

Phone:

Committee responsibilities

Audit Scrutiny 
Overview & Scrutiny 
Planning

 

Rosalind Prowse

 

 

About this councillor

Party: Conservative

Ward: Dawlish South West

Parishes: Dawlish (South West)

Contact Information

Address: 4 Nash Gardens, Dawlish, EX7 9RR

Email: rosalind.prowse@teignbridge.gov.uk

Phone: 01626 866621

Committee responsibilities

Overview & Scrutiny 
Planning 
Standards 
Strata Scrutiny

 

 

Lynne
Lynne
17 Nov 2017 10:31

Text of letter sent to TDC planning councillors from Dawlish Town Council's Civic Amenities Committee (CAC). (My emphasis in bold).

 

"Dawlish Town Council Civic Amenities Committee

The Manor House

Old Town Street

Dawlish

 

Ref 17/01944/FUL Adventure Golf, Tuck’s Plot, Dawlish

 

Dear Councillor,

 

I am writing on behalf of the Dawlish Town Council Civic Amenities Committee (CAC) in objection to the above application at Tuck’s Plot, in Dawlish.

 

This objection supports also the resolution made on the 9th November by the Dawlish Town Council Planning Committee which, owing to the timing of the publication of the Teignbridge District Council Planning Committee agenda, may come to Members as a late representation. For your convenience this draft resolution can be found on the Teignbridge Planning Portal and is also copied below:

 

RESOLVED unanimously by Members present and voting that this Council recommends REFUSAL of this application due to the size of the proposed kiosk and retail offering now presented. Although the fence height has been reduced Members felt it should be positioned behind the wall.

 

It should point out that neither DTC’s Planning Committee nor its CAC is raising a planning objection here to the continued use of the site as a mini-golf course. What is very much at issue however is: the size of the prosed replacement kiosk (which at 30sqm - plus overhangs - covers around ten times the area of the original); the footprint and placement of the proposed new retail / food offering area (Class A5 Hot Food Takeaway, some 95sqm, with 48 ‘covers’); and the ‘visual containment’ of the site (including now its attractive low stone wall) behind the proposed new railing fence.

 

It should also be noted that under the adopted Teignbridge Local Plan (p124), the Dawlish policy for Regeneration (DA12, Ref C) is specific in supporting enhancement of Tuck’s Plot as a civic space, thus overriding any general planning policy that may otherwise apply.

 

Given also that Tuck’s Plot is an important Conservation Area gateway to the town centre and that it forms the principle setting for the Listed Jubilee Bridge, CAC Members concur with the overwhelming proportion of the public who have either written to Teignbridge in objection or who have added their names to the 500-signature petition, that this is not the right scheme for our historic town.

 

I must add that our Members are also concerned that Teignbridge District Council Planning Committee Members – perhaps unknowingly – are being asked via the officer recommendation for approval of this scheme to help provide an undisclosed benefit to their Authority. Tuck’s Plot is held by TDC as an asset - and it is unlikely this scheme will have come forward outside of a competitive tender process. Thus, if monetary considerations have been entered into, the question that may arise in future in the minds of the public is the height of the bar set for design and policy compliance.

 

I would therefore ask that if members, despite the numerous objections received, are otherwise content with this scheme on planning grounds (or if they consider it could be sufficiently conditioned) that this planning application is deferred until a consultation with interested parties and statutory consultees is carried out. If not, I would hope that the Committee will refuse this application, in the expectation that a better scheme for Tuck’s Plot can soon come forward.

 

Thanking you for your considerations on this matter,

 

Kind regards,

 

Gary Taylor

           

Councillor, Dawlish Town Council CAC Member"

Lynne
Lynne
21 Nov 2017 09:07

Just a reminder that this planning application is being heard this morning.

If anyone has any news on what gets decided please can you let us know.

Thanks 

DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
21 Nov 2017 09:52

How is this planning request any more detremental to Dawlish than previous projects that have and have not been passed by our illustrious council(s)!

More competition in the town is better for the consumer and, in my opinion, the putting area has always been a bit of an eyesore anyway.

 

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
21 Nov 2017 16:15

I understand that a decision on this application has been deferred so that members of the planning committee can undertake a site inspection.

Lynne
Lynne
24 Nov 2017 09:16

I happened to be travelling upstairs on a double decker bus yesterday both to and from Teignmouth so I was twice able to get a bird's eye view of the site in question (and from two different angles).

 

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I have to say when I imagined being in situ what is being proposed the last thing I saw in my mind's eye was beauty.

 

 

2 Agrees
TheObserver
TheObserver
24 Nov 2017 14:32

Seriously, a site inspection, to none of the Planning Committee know the area at all?

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