General Discussion

Land grab at the Warren?

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Lynne
Lynne
18 Dec 2013 08:28

A bit of background before I post part of the article that is in today's Dawlish Gazette.

Followers of the planned future development of Dawlish may remember that some two years or so ago lots of time, effort, money and public involvement eventually produced the Dawlish Neighbourhood Plan - a blueprint for how Dawlish should be developed in the future. 

Now, it turns out that there were, and are, a lot of whys and wherefores attached to what was produced and now it seems there is another - and that concerns the proposed country/community park at the Warren.

I remember thinking to myself at the time that the idea became public knowledge, that there was an assumption that whoever it was who owned the land would be prepared to sell it to TDC in order for this park to be developed and what would happen if that person didn't wish to sell?Then I didn't give the idea any more thought as I decided that whoever owned it had already made clear to TDC that the land was up for sale if they wished to buy it. 

Now, unless I've got the wrong end of the stick here (and I haven't read the whole article yet I have to admit) it seems that the landowner in question indeed has no wish to sell his land.

Oops! So, what now then?

Here's the article in question:

 

"Community park ‘will force me out of business’ claims farmer

Wednesday, 18 December 2013


 

DAWLISH farmer Richard Weekes has claimed it is ‘morally wrong’ for Teignbridge Council to be thinking about forcing him out of business so his land can become a £2.5 million community coastal park.

The authority is considering ways of offsetting the loss of open land in and around the Exe estuary and Dawlish Warren as development steps up in the coming years.

It has to provide Sustainable Alternative Natural Greenspaces (SANGS) with developers required to contribute £350 for each property they build within 10km of the internationally important wildlife habitat."
 

 

 

Mcjrpc
Mcjrpc
18 Dec 2013 08:51

Haven't seen the full article either but you'd think TDC would have had an indication from him prior to announcing its plans, maybe he's digging in now as a way of upping his price? 

1 Agree
FredBassett
FredBassett
18 Dec 2013 09:26

Sounds to me like the incompetents at TDC have dug yet another hole for themselves that they cant get out of and are now trying to put the blame on Mr Weeks.

Hope Richard stands his ground no pun intended and tells them where to get off .

How can they buy land in any case, when they are having to sell assets to pay for there inabillity to provide a service fit for purpose.

Time for a few management resignations wouldnt you say Mr Christophers

3 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
18 Dec 2013 09:26

Here is an extract from TDC's report dated May 2013 concerning possible SANG sites in and around Dawlish. This extract refers to the Dawlish Warren coastal park option. (I've put in bold the really relevant bit)

 

"57.3 % (15.13 hectares) of the site is grade 1 agricultural land

Potential risk of unstable ground along the cliffs

Land believed to be in five principal ownerships, including part controlled by the local

authority. It is understood that one landowner has indicated the land is not available

for SANGS

Ownership of part of the site is not known (1.3 hectare rectangular field in the north

west corner)

Further work is needed to clarify the potential for the delivery of SANGS and its

management"

   

OLD FART
OLD FART
18 Dec 2013 10:28

Just as well the TDC isn't a Bakery, cause if it was everything coming out would be half baked!

1 Agree
FredBassett
FredBassett
18 Dec 2013 12:50

@Lynne

I thought all this localism and Dawlish neighbourhood plan had been rejected as incomplete and not acceptable by Eric Pickles and his department when he overturned the Shutterton Park planning rejection made by TDC.

If so then why are TDC wasting even more money by keep banging on about it.

They should stick to something there half good at like emptying the bins

Lynne
Lynne
18 Dec 2013 13:13

@FB - believe the Shutterton Park planning Appeal was upheld on the basis that there was no good planning reason why it had been refused in the first place and that therefore there was no good planning reason why the Appeal should be rejected.

I think one of the reasons given for upholding the Appeal was that TDC did not have (possibly still does not have?) a supply of land that would enable the next five years' housing need within the TDC area to be met. 

A new SANG is needed because of the impact of extra residents and their dogs etc on places like the Dawlish Warren nature reserve. As the new house building will go ahead irrespective of what was outlined in the Dawlish Neighbourhood Plan it follows that TDC needs to find a SANG within the parish of Dawlish.

(and if I am wrong on any of that I'd be pleased to be corrected).     

Lynne
Lynne
18 Dec 2013 13:31

Have now got a hard copy of the Dawlish Gazette. This is the rest of the article following on from what I posted above.

 

“............Mr Weekes’ Warren Farm has been identified by the council as suitable for a 51 acre park where people could exercise their dogs and enjoy a walk in the open air. A planning application could be submitted this month, as soon as the 20 year Plan Teignbridge is approved by the Planning Inspectorate.

Last week members of the council’s executive committee met to receive a progress update from deputy chief executive Phil Shears. He was quizzed by Mr Weekes who claimed he had only met once with the council and that if the scheme went ahead it would rob him of a third of his land, thereby rendering the business no longer viable. He said: ’Has the council taken independent legal adv ice on the validity of a compulsory purchase order for land at Warren Farm when other sites appear to be available?’.

Mr Shears denied a CPO was being sought at this stage and said: ’We’d hope to get through this with a negotiated settlement with you’. Mr Weekes replied: ‘I do feel it’s morally wrong when other sites are available’.

Later in the meeting Mr Shears said a creation of a SANGS was a ‘positive step’ for the protection of Dawlish Warren although he conceded that some traders there were ‘confused’ by the concept. He acknowledged that ‘a range of views’ had been expressed but told the meeting: ‘No proposal is going to make everyone happy’.

Dawlish member Cllr Rosalind Prowse described the issue as a ‘very difficult one’ as it affected peoples’ livelihoods and the environment.

Leader Cllr Jeremy Christophers agreed to note progress so far but ordered that officers hold further talks with Mr Weekes. ‘One meeting is not sufficient’ he said.                   

FredBassett
FredBassett
18 Dec 2013 14:12

Would seem more sensible to CPO the Shutterton Park site for their SANGS and kill two birds with one stone.

Perhaps one of the coucillors named above would care to explain why this would not be a better plan. In realality it would be a far better site for such due to being nearer to the  mass house building up Secmanton.

Would also like to see where the money to CPO anything is coming from, or is it just another one of Cllr Prowse's daydream schemes.

As said before the old school at TDC have lost the plot and need to butt out like they did from DTC

Lynne
Lynne
18 Dec 2013 14:43

If anyone would like to know more about the sites considered by TDC for a SANG in Dawlish then click on this link

http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=37826&p=0

Note there were 4 sites considered: 1.Langdon Farm; 2. Eastdon Wood; 3. Land near Dawlish Warren; 4.Land east of Teignmouth Road.

The land near Dawlish Warren site is TDC's preferred site. 

Go to page 11 and then scroll down to see more about each site. 

Note that at 8.1 on page 30 the document mentions Compulsory Purchase Orders.   

FredBassett
FredBassett
18 Dec 2013 15:52

Thanks Lynne had a quick read through and what a load of abbrevaited dribble the whole document is.

The solution to the issue seems simple though.

Stop all further house building and tell Pickles this is due to not having the money to CPO enough land for SANGS

A couple of other interesting points how far from the Warren and Exe Estuary is the  development of Secmanton because if its less than 10 kilometres it shouldnt be happening anyway. Also hope the Warren tourism people are aware that this document insights TDCs and others wish to reduce tourist visits to the Warren area.

 

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
01 Oct 2014 20:50

Has anyone heard anything more about the proposed Coastal Park at Warren Farm?  People talk about the housing, but not the poor farmer who was to be affected, what is happening, anyone know?

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
01 Oct 2014 22:33

"Poor farmer"?  There's no such thing! :-)

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
01 Oct 2014 23:24

No serious, if you have a small farm and then 1/3 taken off of you it will have a big impact your business.  What are the Air Show to do as his field is used for parking and all the monies taken go towards the next years show?  I can really see Teignbridge running or leasing the car park field for the day, charging and donating the monies to the Dawlish Air Show.  If it becomes a SANG then that might be the end of car parking, camping and car boot sales on the site, has anyone asked Teignbridge if these things can carry on, as they bring money to Dawlish.  Now the local plan is adopted maybe the residents will finally find out what is going on and how the changes will affect us.

Mcjrpc
Mcjrpc
02 Oct 2014 09:11

Reading the document the farmer said from the outset that he's unwilling to sell.  Imagine having the prospect of a compulsory purchase order hanging over you while all this is figured out, you couldn't make any long term plans or investment.    Meanwhile a landowner in Cockwood wants to sell his 400 acres.  Sod's law.

 

That aside, I'm not sure that land will provide adequate parking for the Airshow in future.  The road into Dawlish was at a standstill and people missed the start of it because they were stuck in the jams.   I feel a bit sorry for Starcross which will bear the brunt of all this development in Dawlish. 

Lynne
Lynne
02 Oct 2014 09:52

No probs for Starcross Mcjprc - I was at quite a few public meetings concerning the new houses planned to be built in Dawlish where the planners said words to the effect of that the present A379 would not be adversely affected by extra traffic because the new houses would be sited near to where there are rail stations and bus stops and the people in the new houses would use the train or the bus and not cars. 

I joke not.

Now, I am all for people using public transport, especially trains, but let's be realistic shall we?  

Mcjrpc
Mcjrpc
02 Oct 2014 10:20

Yeah right.  What's the likelihood those planners went to the meetings by public transport.

ken
ken
02 Oct 2014 17:18

So lets have a Hong Kong style revolution and tell TDC to go to hell. Look at Chudleigh local plan 175 houses / 30% affordable. TDC planning dept now says delveloper wants 230 houses / 20% affordable and some business units as the plan is not viable and the planning dept leader says planning commitee cannot refuse as it will go to appeal and that will cost the council ( thats us ) money. 

So what is the local plan worth, answers on the back of a postage stamp. 

1 Agree
ken
ken
02 Oct 2014 17:22

In addition where are the open spaces going to be for the children to play in when they develop the Secmaton site. Is any parent going to let their children walk to Dawlish Warren or Sandy Lane for open space to play.

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
02 Oct 2014 21:10

Here is the link for all 4 options for SANGS and option 1 would have met with what Ken was on about as all roads lead to it. http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=37826&p=0.  Maybe if the Coastal Park falls through this might be a possible option.  What do people think?

Andysport
Andysport
02 Oct 2014 21:18

My understanding is that Richards land is quite spread out over approx 2 miles so I wonder if the council do compulsory purchase why on earth couldnt Richard just by some of the land that's for sale off Exeter road, alternatively County council own about 150 acres off Port Road very close to Richards existing land by Saint Marys why can't they offer a swap?  

1 Agree
Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
03 Oct 2014 11:03

The fact is Mr Weekes is able to earn non farming income from the site due to its prime position, and it is also grade 1 land.  Even if the Council were to swap land, which is a good idea, could they actually provide replacement grade 1 land, as most around here is grade 3 due to the sandy soil?  It still leaves the problem though that the new land would be off the tourist trail and unsuitable for carboot sales etc. which gives him additional income.  The trouble is that farmers are not just farmers now in todays world, due to supermarkets driving down prices as they have the monopoly and even those who don't supply them directly must be affected by prices paid at market and the cheapness of foreign imports.  Life is not so simple now hence why so many farmers are being forced to diversify just to survive.  Why do you think so many farmers have given up, small scale farming has never been easy and in recent years it has just got a lot harder because of external pressures beyond their control. So if he loses his land his potential income is bound to be impacted quite badly, so he is not in a good place right now.

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
15 Oct 2014 07:43

There is something in this week's Gazette about this. 

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
24 Oct 2014 20:49

There is a counter article this week from Teignbridge District Council justifying their position in the Dawlish Gazette

 

Lynne
Lynne
29 Oct 2014 11:33

Interesting letter in this week's Gazette from DARE about this matter amongst other things pointing out that various groups in the town benefit from the farmer/landowner offering this particular piece of land to the air show, carnival, and firework display for free and asking that all groups in the town that benefit from this (including the tourism industry and the shops in the town centre) appeal to TDC to think again.

Have a read of the letter yourself. It's on page 9.      

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
06 Nov 2014 09:16

Three more letters in the Dawlish Gazette regarding Coastal Park SANGS!  Worth a look.

Lynne
Lynne
12 Nov 2014 08:09

letter in today's Gazette:

 

immoral’ tactics should be stopped immediately

Wednesday, 12 November 2014


Alison Foden, of Dawlish, has sent us a copy of her letter to the Rt Hon Eric Pickles, MP, Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government:

Request for urgent action against Teignbridge District Council’s plans to force a farmer off his land 

With reference to my letter to you dated October 23, 2014, I ask if you can give urgent attention to the land-grab plans of Teignbridge District Council, which will force a local farmer out of business, a third-generation farm. 

Teignbridge DC intends to issue a compulsory purchase order to push a farmer off his land in Dawlish, so that they can use the land for a country park for SANGS (sustainable alternative natural green-space). The farm land has been farmed by the same family for over 60 years, and is a mixture of arable, sheep and cows. 

The council maintain that they are required to offset the loss of land a couple of miles away, and that they need to provide alternative green space. However, putting a park on this farmer’s land would require car parks to be built, possibly another road, and people using it would need to drive there. 

The farm has been farmed with countryside preservation to the fore for the last decade, and it is a habitat and feeding ground of the endangered cirl bunting. Warren Farm is adjacent to South West Water’s sewage works, and I understand that Natural England advises that ‘Sangs’ should not be in close proximity.

My questions are: 

How can it be morally right that a council can force a farmer off his land and out of business in order to provide land for green space in order that developers can build houses on other green space? The land is being usefully used for agriculture, and is not an eyesore, and there are public footpaths across and around some of the fields. 

It is both morally and ethically wrong to prevent a farmer from growing food on a well-managed farm in this world of food shortages. 

There is land for sale in Cockwood, less than two miles away which would be an ideal location, why can the council not buy that land which is actually for sale? And there is ‘green space’ in the town of Dawlish – the Lawn – which the council wants to build on. 

And in Dawlish Warren, if the aim is to protect the Dawlish Warren nature reserve, then why did Teignbridge DC allow houses to be built in the last couple of years adjacent to it?

If this compulsory purchase order of quality working farm land is allowed to go ahead, what is there to prevent Teignbridge District Council issuing further compulsory purchase orders in the future?

The way that the Warren Farm is managed benefits the local environment and wildlife through countryside stewardship, and should be promoted and recognised. There is a public footpath, and the farmer regularly allows local community events to use a field.

I request that you urgently look into the immoral land-grabbing tactics of Teignbridge District Council, and to prevent this from happening.

 

Lynne
Lynne
12 Nov 2014 13:42

BBC Spotlight South West also covering this in their local news today.

flo
flo
12 Nov 2014 16:02

There was an interview with Richard last night on the News.  I do find what is happening bizarre.  We don't need a country park, just stop building all over the beautiful woodlands we have already (walking through Elm Grove Woods breaks my heart at the moment.  Do something with the top part of the playing fields - plant a few trees, put in a few benches, just don't force a farmer off his land.

3 Agrees
Carer
Carer
12 Nov 2014 18:19

Obviuosly someone in the council has got ££££££££££££££££££££'s as a 'Gift' to get the planning permission for homes.

Lynne
Lynne
12 Nov 2014 19:30

I don't know farmer Richard Weekes let alone how to contact him. However, I am hoping that some who read this do.

Just a thought. And I have no idea whether or not it will help him in his fight to keep his land. But has anyone thought to suggest to him that he contacts the national press about this? Tabloid, Broadsheet, Left wing, Right wing. Don't care. Any and all of 'em. They might pick up the story. After all it has been running on the local tv news programmes today

I'd contact one or two of them myself but don't want to do so unless he is agreeable.

Can someone, somewhere, get this message to him please.

Thanks   

 

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
13 Nov 2014 13:55

Go onto facebook either Warren Farm or Richard Weeks and you can sent a private message.  Richard would like to talk to you as well.  If you don't use facebook then it will be plan B, as I don't think you can send a private email through this site?

 

Lynne
Lynne
13 Nov 2014 14:00

Webmaster - where has the messaging facility on this website gone? I'd like to contact Kaz via it but it seems this facility is no longer available.

Kaz - will try contacting RW direct. If a problem I will get back to you on here.   

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
13 Nov 2014 14:10

07749 623431 this is the number on his farm facebook page.

 

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
13 Nov 2014 14:49

Have you noticed that the Dawlish Gazette is following the story, however I couldn't find anything last week in the so called Dawlish Post or did I miss it?

 

Lynne
Lynne
13 Nov 2014 15:00

Kaz - have e-mailed RW direct using the e-mail address given on Warren Farm's website. 

Daverc
Daverc
13 Nov 2014 16:16

Kaz - what do you expect from the "Dawlish"/Newton Abbot Post ?

Lynne
Lynne
13 Nov 2014 16:26

@Kaz - connection made!

Clive
Clive
13 Nov 2014 19:33

Lynne, the 'good fairy' worked her magic overnight.  At 5.55am this morning on the Radio 4 Farming programme, there were interviews with Richard Weekes, Wife, Offspring and John Goode (Teignbridge Council).

In summary, to counterbalance the 1200 new homes in Dawlish there has to be a 'Green Buffer zone protected in perpetuity between Dawlish and the Warren'.  Richard stated that he would lose one third of his farm to oblige the council by selling it to them.  His two grievances were that the 'remaining two thirds of his farm would leave him with an unviable business' and that it wasn't fair that he is the one and only landowner being asked to part with land.  Mr Goode replied that full market value would be offered (oh how generous of them given that someone must be 'making a killing' out of the 1200 new homes) and that 'compulsory purchase was furthest from his mind', but when pushed by further questioning did admit that doing so could 'not be ruled out'.

Lynne
Lynne
13 Nov 2014 21:12

"to counterbalance the 1200 new homes in Dawlish there has to be a 'Green Buffer zone protected in perpetuity between Dawlish and the Warren'."

until that is planning regulations/policies change ( which inevitably they will do) and the 'perpetuity' could be undone in a blink of an eye. 

 

"Mr Goode replied that full market value would be offered (oh how generous of them given that someone must be 'making a killing' out of the 1200 new homes)"

 

this, presumably, would be full market value of Grade 1 agricultural land rather than, as you imply, the market value of land that has been earmarked to have housing built on it.

Perhaps Mr Weekes should work out how much he will lose by not having a viable farm anymore and ask TDC to compensate him that way. Wonder if they would be so interested then?

 

and just when exactly in the process of formulating the Local Plan did TDC inform Mr Weekes of their plans for his land? I've heard it said that right back at the very beginning of the formulation of the future plans for Dawlish (2011?) this idea was put forward by TDC to the Dawlish Neighbourhood Plan working group but that Mr Weekes was not informed beforehand about it.

Like I said, that's hearsay because I wasn't a member of the working group. But I would like to know if that is true or not.  Would be interesting to hear the views of people who were on that working group with regard to the veracity of what I have heard re the lack of consultation with Mr Weekes when this idea was originally mooted.    

 

Lynne
Lynne
13 Nov 2014 21:51

this link will take you to the radio 4 programme to which Clive refers

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04nv99z

the relevant bit starts 9.19 minutes into the programme and runs until 13.30 minutes 

Carer
Carer
14 Nov 2014 08:18

@Lynne

 

The Message button is still there. smiley

Lynne
Lynne
14 Nov 2014 08:49

@Carer - Thanks - Yes it seems to have reappeared. When i needed to use it yesterday though I couldn't find it.   

Lynne
Lynne
14 Nov 2014 08:55

A little anecdote. But a true one. Brought up no doubt from the fathoms of my memory by this (as I write) bright sunny morning.

About 12/18months ago my partner and I took our dog for a walk at Dawlish Warren. Many others it seemed had decided to do the same. I vividly remember looking at my partner and saying "And I wonder how many people on a day like this would use the proposed coastal park at Warren Farm rather than come down here to the beach?". 

 

Lynne
Lynne
14 Nov 2014 11:10

on the other hand of course if dogs were to be banned from the Warren then............

(which then begs the question of how much of a negative impact this would have on Warren traders if all them dogs and their owners were directed away from the Warren shops and amusements).

So..........not just Mr Weeks who might be adversely affected then if this coastal park were to exist.

Wakey, wakey. 

 

 

Lynne
Lynne
14 Nov 2014 16:11

Found this the contents of which may be of interest to those following this matter

 

http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=39510&p=0

Note that on page 8 item 20 Map D it shows that the proposed coastal park would be made up of land presently comprising Warren Farm and land owned by other(s?) that are the fields where the Weds. open market is held during the summer and the field adjacent to it by the Langstone Cliffe Hotel driveway though I can't quite figure out what the field presently used for the Wednesday summer open market is scheduled to be used for.

Car parking spaces for up to 130 cars.  

The sewage works, Leadstone camping, Leadstone bungalow and the houses twixt the open market field and the next field down towards the Warren appear not to be part of the proposed coastal park.  

pembroke
pembroke
14 Nov 2014 16:37

I heard the item on "Farming Today" and today had a look at "SANG"/Natural England.  I didn't realise that the unelected Natural England had so much power and the provision of SANG requires such a lenghty protocol. Worse, a car park is needed, dog walkers encouraged , all this ruining a farmers living.

If I buy a house and want to walk a dog ,the Ordanance Survey map is more than adequate, most people have two legs, use them.

Lynne
Lynne
14 Nov 2014 17:09

Also found this.

 

http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=34433&p=0

It is the result of the survey undertaken by TDC re the proposed Coastal Park.

No doubt this survey will be referred to by TDC in its pursuing of this park.  Indeed I believe its existence has already been referenced by a Dawlish Teignbridge District councillor who used it as a defence for TDC's actions thus far. (ie the people of Dawlish were consulted about this proposal). Ha,******, ha.

Note the following:

1. I can only count some 83/84 responses on that survey (you have a count and see how many you get to - it will be around that number.)

2. Not all of the respondees are Dawlish residents. If you look on the survey responses it says whether it is an individual or an organisation that is responding hence you will find responses from the RSPB and and Shutterton Park Ltd amongst others. No problem with that, no problem with that at all, but that does mean that of the circa 83 responses even fewer were from Dawlish residents!

3. Dawlish has a population of circa 13,500. I know some of them will be children but even so ask yourselves how many Dawlish residents out of that number actually bothered to respond to this survey. Indeed how many of them actually knew about it and how many of them whether or not they responded were aware that one of the landowners had no wish to sell his land to TDC?  

Letter writer AF
Letter writer AF
14 Nov 2014 19:07

Hello,

I'm the letter writer in the paper this week.  I still haven't had a response o my letter to Rt Hon Eric Pickles or Rt Hon Liz Truss MP, so hope this means they're taking action against Teignbridge DC.

I'm planning to start an online petition on 38 Degrees website this weekend against the plans to force a farmer of land which is growing food. 

 
 
Letter writer AF
Letter writer AF
14 Nov 2014 19:19

Why should dog walkers and house builders get priority over land which ignores the fact that the land is already owned by someone, and who doesn't want to give up his land, property and livelihood?  

 

Clive
Clive
14 Nov 2014 20:25


All sounds very David and Ruth Archer and Justin Elliot's 'Route B'.

Fact can be stranger than fiction.

Listening to the interviews again, the Weekes sound like very decent people.

Goode just came across as a bully.  If I am forced to aquire the land by compulsory purchase, then it is because you made me do it.

 

ken
ken
14 Nov 2014 21:26

I have never seen this survey, were was it advertised, was it sent to every dawlish household. I think not typical dirty tricks by TDC

Lynne
Lynne
15 Nov 2014 06:21

Should anyone wish to contact any of the Dawlish Teignbridge District Councillors about this issue but not know who to contact or how I thought this link might be of use.

 

http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/article/13113/Teignbridge-Councillors-A-Z

It gives the names of all the Teignbridge councillors and if you click on their names you will find out how to contact them. Addresses, tel numbers, e-mail addresses.

These are the 5 Dawlish Teignbridge District councillors:

Humphrey Clemens (Conservative)

Ted Hockin (Conservative)

John Petherick (Independent)

Graham Price (Conservative)

Rosalind Prowse (Conservative)

 

Warren Farm is in the ward that Cllrs Hockin, Petherick and Price represent. 

Cllrs Clemens and Price are TDC Planning Committee members. Cllr Clemens chairs this committee. Cllr Prowse is a substitute councillor for this committee.

(info from TDC website).

Letter writer AF
Letter writer AF
15 Nov 2014 09:44

Hi all, I feel a plan of action is needed.  If anyone wishes to support, let's meet up at The Strand Centre - the church on the strand at 12 today.  They nice coffee there.

Lynne
Lynne
15 Nov 2014 12:54

Ah! this message was tooo late for me!. And guess where I was until about 30 mins ago. Yep! You got it - in town. 

Letter writer AF
Letter writer AF
15 Nov 2014 14:52

I had a good meeting with Mr Weekes, and I've been speaking to people at the Manor House open day this afternoon.  I feel that we have to do something soon, and to find out when Teignbridge DC are submitting their planning application - before they try to sneak it through. 

 
 
Hi Alison Thanks for copying RSPB into your letter expressing concern with Teignbridge Council's intent to acquire land at Warren Farm to create a country park/SANGS. Your letter raises a number of issues, the one of relevance to the RSPB relates to cirl buntings. We don't hold any cirl bunting records for the site since 2003, so are not aware that it has recently been used, or is currently used, by cirl buntings. If it was, however, it should be possible to accommodate cirl buntings within a SANGS. We would expect, as part of any planning application for the country park, an ecological impact assessment to be undertaken, which would identify whether cirl buntings are present. If they are, we would urge the Council to ensure that habitats and features are designed into the area to ensure that the species is catered for. Even if cirl buntings are not found at the site, RSPB will push the Council to put management in place to attract the species, to encourage them to recolonise the site. Cirl buntings are not particularly sensitive to disturbance, so their presence is compatible with public access. I won't comment on the suitability of this particular site as a SANGS, but RSPB is supportive of the approach Teignbridge is taking, alongside Exeter and East Devon, to avoid harm to the rare and vulnerable wildlife of the Exe Estuary, Dawlish Warren and the East Devon Heaths arising from a rapidly expanding local population. SANGS are in our view likely to make a contribution towards such an approach. Best wishes Gavin Bloomfield Senior Conservation Officer South West England Regional Office Keble House, Southernhay Gardens, Southernhay, Exeter EX1 1NT  
Lynne
Lynne
15 Nov 2014 15:47

Have you contacted any of our District councillors to see if they can find out?  

@webmaster - messaging facility seems to have disappeared again.

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
15 Nov 2014 16:01

Lynne. Do you use a smartphone to view this site. If so, there's something that intermittently causes the Messages and Profile link to be hidden. I guess it's something to do with the way the page resizes. 

webmaster
webmaster
15 Nov 2014 16:09

@Lynne, messaging is only available to people that have this option ticked in their settings. Could it be this?

Lynne
Lynne
15 Nov 2014 16:17

@jc @webmaster -messaging option available at the bottom of each of your postings above but not under those of af who i would like to message.

Don't use smartphone - just old fashioned computer.   

Lynne
Lynne
15 Nov 2014 17:08

@AF - Teignbridge DC can send out to those who ask a list every week of planning applications submitted. Included in those who receive this notification, so I believe, is the MDA in Newton Abbot. (MDA= Mid Devon Advertiser for those who might not know. MDA produces, amongst other papers, the Dawlish Gazette).

Given the amount of publicity this issue has received so far, and which I anticipate it will continue to get, I can't imagine for one moment that the Dawlish Gazette will not let us all know when they receive notification of any planning application submitted to TDC (by TDC) with regard to the proposed coastal park and Warren Farm land.  

 

Letter writer AF
Letter writer AF
15 Nov 2014 18:39

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/immoral-tactics-of-teignbridge-district-council

Thank you Lynne, I plan to call into the Dawlish Gazette office on Monday morning. 

I've just set up an online petition on the 38 Degrees website -see above. Please sign and forward onto other people too. 

 
Lynne
Lynne
17 Nov 2014 08:51

a more technical response from Mr Weeks himself concerning this coastal park proposal

 

http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=40100&p=0

Letter writer AF
Letter writer AF
17 Nov 2014 16:04

Thank you Lynne.

 

Lynne
Lynne
17 Nov 2014 17:36

Correction - in my post timed 16.11 on 14th November I should have written Leadstone Camping and Leadstone bungalow (I wrote Langstone on both occasions).

Thank you to the person who pointed that out to me.   

 

Webmaster: Corrected now in that post.

Lynne
Lynne
17 Nov 2014 20:23
Lynne
Lynne
18 Nov 2014 10:21

 

“1.39: Aside from those proposals of potentially national significance, there has been additional

emphasis by the current Coalition Government on the return of decision making powers to

the local level, and empowerment of local communities to make decisions about the place

in which they live. The Coalition Government is also bringing forward a number of

changes that enable more developments to proceed without individual planning

permission, under permitted development rights, or through other new initiatives that are

intended to streamline the approval process.”

 

Found at top of page 20 in  http://www.eastdevon.gov.uk/env038a-footprintecologysedevoneuropeansitemitigationrepfinal2014.pdf

 

Thought for the day : Just how much decision making have the people of Dawlish had,  and I mean really had, in the formation of the Local Plan?  And note that last bit about some developments not having to go through the planning procedure!

 

And they talk about local empowerment.

 

(This document by the way is concerned with the impact of increased visitor numbers to , amongst other places, Dawlish Warren, due to the increase in population caused by all the new house building and how such possible increase in visitor numbers can be mitigated. In Dawlish Warren’s case this is by the proposed creation of a Coastal Park running alongside Warren Road/Mount Pleasant Road.)

 

This is a document to which I shall refer again. But in the meantime, and if you feel so inclined, do have a read of it yourself.   

 

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
18 Nov 2014 13:40
Thanks Lynne for the document, will the people of Dawlish have more of a say or will Teignbridge DC have even more power to do what they want!  See below from the document.
 
Teignbridge
'3.11 The majority of housing allocations are situated away from the estuary (around Newton 
Abbot), but there are significant allocations close to the SPA/SAC at Dawlish and south 
west of Exeter (near Exminster). Recognising the current draw of Dawlish Warren, the 
emerging Teignbridge local plan includes commitments to new large scale greenspace that 
is to be designed to attract users away from the Warren, focusing on being more 
expansive, more attractive and with new high quality visitor facilities. Policy wording 
commits to providing two new country parks: one a ridge top park located adjacent to new 
housing at the south west of Exeter, with varied farmland habitats, topography and view 
points; and the other on the coast between Dawlish and Dawlish Warren, which will link to 
the existing coastal path and provide a coastal experience alongside a range of walks 
through meadows and wooded areas, with more formal play provision, open air 
amphitheatre and visitor centre.'
 
The above conflicts with SANGS GUIDANCE see below:
Page 129 
'Table 17: Current concerns, recommendations and comments regarding SANGs provision
Dawlish Warren Park (DA7)
 
Potential is clearly evident but visitor infrastructure 
will be critical for attacting visitors. Currently 
lacking in varied topography.
Links back to Dawlish Warren must be prevented.
It is unlikely to prove attractive to users such as bird 
watchers, walkers and beach users, and on site
mitigation at Dawlish Warren will therefore still be required. 
 
Recommendations:
To maximise its potential, it would need to offer free parking and 
a suitable length dog walk, including 2km circuits for daily walks, and 
longer circuits for those looking for a longer walk. 
 
So TDC are to provide free parking to attract tourists away from their fee paying carparks and then allow them to walk along the South West Coastal Path down to the area they are trying to protect and draw people from, how does that work?
 
There are other reasons within the document why the site is wrong, can you find them?
Lynne
Lynne
18 Nov 2014 15:31

 

Well.............I did notice at the bottom of page 128/top page 129 that it says the following :

“ SANGS must be free from unpleasant visual, auditory or

olfactory intrusions (e.g. derelict buildings, intrusive adjoining

buildings, dumped materials, loud intermittent or continuous

noise from traffic, industry, sports grounds, sewage treatment

works, waste disposal facilities).”

 

And then for DA7 (that’s the proposed Coastal Park comprising Warren Farm plus land belonging to other(s)) I see that there is a tick in the box indicating that there is a 'current presence.'

 

So, 'they' acknowledge then do they that there is a sewage works in extreme close proximity to this proposed site

and

that there is a busy road, especially in summer, that links the Warren to Dawlish town and which road will run right along one side of the proposed coastal park.

What are 'they' going to do then? Get rid of the sewage works and the noisy busy road? Like wotsit they will.

 

Was that what you had in mind Kaz?  Have I missed anything?

Lynne
Lynne
18 Nov 2014 16:33
Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
18 Nov 2014 20:03
Lynne well spotted and just spotted this which might not go down well with the traders. They are thinking of making the main car-park smaller
 
(P. 116 is where the below comes from)
Removing the car park and recreating grassland in its place. This would provide 
an additional area for dog walkers and picnikers. Visitors would need to use the 
landward car park on the other side of the railway (part of which is also a County 
Wildlife Site for its fixed dune grassland plants), and walk under the railway 
bridge. Information would need to be obtained as to the extent to which users of 
the current car park use the retail facilities in the resort area, and whether they 
would do so if walking from the landward car park. ..............................
P. 151
8.50 At Dawlish Warren, one long term option could be to set back parking entirely from the 
current car-park, as discussed under Off-site measures. This is unlikely to be viewed 
favourably (e.g. local retailers could be concerned about loss of revenue through lack of 
convenient parking). An alternative would be to close the existing gates, significantly 
reducing the size of the car park.
 
If people cannot park on site they will go elsewhere having a knock on effect on seasonal trade!  The laughable thing is below: 
 
P. 170
9.46 It may be possible to approach local retailers to assist with communication with specific 
user groups. For examples, asking outlets in Dawlish Warren village stocking barbeques to 
display a sign alerting customers that there are byelaws in place preventing the use of 
barbeques at Dawlish Warren.

So not only will they be driving away potential trade, but they will be asking for the said traders to help them notify holiday makers about their byelaws!  Talk about having your cake and eating it too!

 

 

Lynne
Lynne
18 Nov 2014 20:07

Not much point in their selling barbeques then.

Lynne
Lynne
19 Nov 2014 07:57

Why are TDC suggesting that what is presently a car park should be grassed over thus providing an additional space for dog walkers and picknickers when I thought the whole point of the Coastal Park was to draw people and their dogs away from the Warren?

 

Anyone?  

 

ken
ken
19 Nov 2014 23:13

because they are thick.

flo
flo
20 Nov 2014 13:12

I'm sure I've probably just missed something on the links but how much will this all cost, including compulsory purchasing and what/whose budget is it coming from? 

[Gets on well worn soap box] I'm sick to death of new 'projects' taking place with absolutely no thought to upkeep after it's completed.  Let's face it the playing fields at the top only get mowed twice a year due to cost, Red Rock is struggling for funding, the old 'Tinkys' building is in danger of collapsing completely, Dawlish Leisure Centre should be known locally as "The Sieve" and we won't go there with the train station/wall.

STOP IT

There's plenty of walking available without going to Dawlish Warren there's absolutely no need to purchase this land and turn it into anything else.  It's just another vanity project.

And someone ought to be shot over the car parking at Dawlish Warren - ever tried to park quickly (half an hour or an hour) to go about your business?  No chance.

I'm starting to despair over the running of this county/country.

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
20 Nov 2014 14:03

Where is the money coming from? Dunno, but suspect the landowners/developers of the land earmarked for all the housing development may have to hand monies over to TDC one way or the other. Wouldn't it make life a lot easier for all concerned though if instead of money to TDC the landowners/developers of the sites earmarked for housing development provided the land for a SANGS? 

Kaz can you enlighten us any further? 

I have posted this l link before but will do so again here. 

http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=37826&p=0

Note there were 4 sites considered: 1.Langdon Farm; 2. Eastdon Wood; 3. Land near Dawlish Warren; 4.Land east of Teignmouth Road.

The land near Dawlish Warren site is TDC's preferred site. 

Go to page 11 and then scroll down to see more about each site. 

Note that at 8.1 on page 30 the document mentions Compulsory Purchase Orders.     

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
20 Nov 2014 15:24
From the Executive 22 July 2014
 
http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=41483&p=0
 
2.6.3 Whilst Section 106 agreements form the relevant means to secure 
monies for the time being, in the future the clear expectation for each authority 
is that the Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL) will be the means to secure 
funding for measures that qualify as ‘infrastructure’. Other measures will still 
be funded via S106 Agreements. Once CIL is in place in Teignbridge, the 
expectation is that funding for SANGS will be dedicated directly from CIL 
receipts to pay for SANGS provision, while most other measures will be 
funded via S106. 
Lynne
Lynne
20 Nov 2014 16:18

Ah yes! TDC Executive Meetings. Here's some more info

 

From the minutes of TDC Executive meeting held 10th December 2013

http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=39639&p=0

see page 183 to middle page 185

 

Question 5 – Mr R Weeks

Has a copy of the TDC SANGS report of May 2013 been passed to the

Inspector, Mr Salter and to Natural England and if so has Mr Salter and

Natural England been asked to comment on the four proposed suggestions.

EXECUTIVE (10.12.2013)

184

Answer

The site options appraisal report (May 2013) was submitted to the inspector

on 20 June 2013 (Core Document CDD78

http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=37826&p=0). This

document, along with the technical reports on habitats regulations and

Dawlish Warren impacts, were considered by the inspector during the local

plan hearings. The inspector also considered the 10 representations made on

the DA7 policy during the Local Plan publication stage consultation. We await

the inspector’s findings and report.

 

Question 6

Prior to the planning application being made for Warren Farm will Dawlish

Town Council and the local people of Dawlish be informed of and given the

opportunity to be consulted on the four sites considered in the TDC SANGS

report of May 2013?

Answer

The site options appraisal report (May 2013) was a technical assessment of

alternative locations for a site which best met strategic requirements to

address the recreational impacts on the Warren. This report informed the

Habitats Regulations assessment of the Local Plan proposals and the Local

Plan policies as agreed by Teignbridge Council.

A planning application for the Coastal Park will be well advertised and

available for comment. The application will be determined by the planning

committee and interested parties will be given an opportunity to speak to the

committee. Only the proposed site of policy DA7 will be subject to any

application or consideration. One purpose of the Executive being asked to

review the draft report on the coastal park is to ensure the public is aware of

proposals prior to any application.

 

Question 7

To include the successful appeal for Shutterton Lane for 350 houses and the

proposed and recently consented developments, the total number of new

houses just in Dawlish will be at least 1,888 which at 2.23 persons per house

will give an increase in population of 4,210. According to Natural England an

area of 8 hectares is required for every 1,000 new population. This would

equate to a minimum requirement of over 30 hectares. The land at Warren

Farm and Langstone Cliff Hotel field amounts to 21 hectares, a shortfall of

over 10 hectares. As the SANGS will have to be in two places in Dawlish why

can't 10 hectares be at one site and the other 20 hectares at one of the other

sites, where the land could be provided as part of proposed development on

land in the same ownership?

Answer

Delivery of SANGS in Dawlish must fulfil strategic objectives of addressing

impacts on the protected warren habitats as well as additional activity arising

from new development. The site options appraisal report (May 2013) is clear

EXECUTIVE (10.12.2013)

185

the DA7 is the most effective location to meet the strategic provision to be

made. It is best capable of delivering an immediate coastal experience for

visitors, and for intercepting visitors travelling along Warren Road (the

principal approach route to Dawlish Warren).

Policy S17 makes clear there will also be provision of complementary SANGS

at Dawlish. The Council’s proposed Policy DA6 (incorporating submitted minor

changes) indicates this will require approximately 15 hectares of additional

strategic green infrastructure associated with new developments in the area.

Maximising SANGS which best supports the strategic objectives is the agreed

approach.

 

Supplementary Question

I feel it is morally wrong that I have to take the full burden of open green space

when other sites are available. The proposal will mean the loss of a third of

our family farm. Has the Council taken independent legal advice on the

validity of the CPO to purchase my farm when other sites are available?

Supplementary Answer - Deputy Chief Executive

The Council is awaiting the decision of the Planning Inspector. At this stage

we are talking to you about the potential for SANGs and looking at design and

access to the site. We would hope to achieve this through a negotiated

settlement.

Lynne
Lynne
22 Nov 2014 14:09

 

“Adjoining Timaru Sewage Treatment Works - potential risk of unpleasant

intrusion from smells”

 

this gem is to be found on page 22 of the TDC report dated May 2013 concerning the pros and cons of the four options for where the SANGS should be sited. It refers to the Warren Farm SANGS option.

My point being that the TDC officers who wrote this report and analysed the 4 sites have as good as admitted that the Warren Farm site breaches the Natural England protocol for where a SANGS should and should not be sited.       

 

Click here for the whole document  http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=37826&p=0

 

Lynne
Lynne
22 Nov 2014 14:54
Lynne
Lynne
23 Nov 2014 08:43
Lynne
Lynne
23 Nov 2014 13:25

Just been over to the Leisure Centre. Saw there were leaflets about Dawlish Warren National Nature Reserve. Thought I'd pick one up and 'ave a read given as how this areas existence is causing so much potential hassle for some.

Now.........the SANGS at Warren Farm is needed to reduce the number of visits to the Warren nature reserve right? So.......why is this leaflet advertising the Warren NNR? Why does it have a 'Welcome to Dawlish Warren National Nature Reserve' page which concludes with an "Enjoy Your Visit".

Question; Will this leaflet be withdrawn if the SANGS at Warren Farm goes ahead? Or will visitors still be encouraged to visit the Warren NNR?  

Question: Will websites like this http://www.visitsouthdevon.co.uk/lots-to-do/dawlish-warren-national-nature-reserve-visitor-centre-p540583 be deleted? After all, why advertise the Warren NNR when the purpose of the SANGS is to stop people going to the Warren NNR?

 

      

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
24 Nov 2014 17:55

Only 123 more signatures needed to reach the 2000, before the e-petition can be sent to the Government Departments.  So it is the last push, if you haven't done it yet and are going to please do it now.

 

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/immoral-tactics-of-teignbridge-district-council

 

1 Agree
Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
25 Nov 2014 11:11

Thank you everyone, now only 69 signitures needed to reach target on 38degrees petition

Lynne
Lynne
26 Nov 2014 17:13

 

3.1 Legal: It is a legal requirement that a local planning authority does not grant planning permission for any development that would negatively impact a European Site, unless full mitigation is secured. The Mitigation Strategy identifies the measures needed to mitigate recreational impacts from the construction and occupation of a specified number of new houses within the District. Accordingly the principle of securing monetary contributions through S106 agreements and/or CIL (on a per dwelling basis) to contribute towards achieving those mitigation measures is sound and ensures compliance with our legal duty under the Habitats Regulations.

 

However, it is important that the identified mitigation measures are properly implemented/delivered. Without appropriate mitigation mechanisms in place there is a real risk that development might occur that would result in adverse wildlife impacts.

 

Without securing mitigation measures planning permission must not be granted for development and if granted the Council could be liable to legal challenge.

 

from  http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=41483&p=0

 

Lynne
Lynne
26 Nov 2014 17:21

@ time of typing this the e-petition has 2,028 signatories 

Lynne
Lynne
26 Nov 2014 17:30

Listen up everyone. Listen carefully. Can you hear it now? Listen hard. Because this is what I am hearing..........

A resounding silence on this issue from our Dawlish Teignbridge District councillors. 

5 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
27 Nov 2014 13:48

 

Ahem! I see that the new Exe Estuary Trail this side of the Exe Estuary is well on its way to being completed  https://dawlish.com/thread/details/34129

This is what I have posted on that thread. I’ll repeat it on this one as it is very relevant.

"er..........all these extra people that this new trail will bring to the Exe Estuary and Dawlish Warren area.............

I thought the whole point of SANGS is to dissuade people from visiting both these places.

Go on someone - explain to me the logic of it all. 

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
27 Nov 2014 14:19
Lynne I think you'll like this one too.  So much for attracting visitors away from the Nature Reserve!
 
Teignbridge Green Space Events October - December 2014
 
The Green Spaces Rangers look forward to
welcoming you to a conservation task or event!
If you need this information in a
 different format phone 01626 361101 or
 email info@teignbridge.gov.uk
Green Spaces Team
Teignbridge District Council, Forde Road Offices, Forde Road, Newton Abbot, TQ12
 
There are plenty of opportunities to
get involved in practical tasks as
well as informative events across
the Teignbridge District in our Local
Nature Reserve and open spaces.
 
http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=41969&p=0
SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
27 Nov 2014 14:23

Lynne, I have heard that sound before.

I heard it in 2012 when, following the decision by Dawlish Councillors to switch the emerging Local Plan (eLP) housing allocation from Shutterton Park (where a planning application for 350 homes had just been refused) to Gatehouse Farm (DA2), I asked what would happen if the developer was to win approval on appeal? And would this relocation "result in the same number of houses for Dawlish" as suggested?

It was continued to be heard in 2013 when Councillors were asked (by one of the resident groups I belong to) for a response to a call for a reduction in the 12400 houses proposed in the eLP (the 2011 census data indicates a requirement of some 10000 homes). A similar silence followed the questions about whether the the large number of houses in the eLP was driven by perceived need - or by financial incentives gained from the New Homes Bonus?

The sound was still apparent at the eLP inspection last September. While the case for a better deal for Dawlish was being made by local resident groups, not a murmer came from its elected representatives - even as the notification about the successful Shutterton Park appeal was being circulated. When the bombshell finally dropped that Teignbridge wanted to keep these additional 350 homes (later swept under the carpet as 'windfall development') and 'grab' (as is their MO) an additional 8 hectares of land of NHS land at Langdon Hospital for 'mixed use', the only sound in the chamber were gasps of surprise and cries of 'shame' from the public gallery.

I have a great deal of sympathy for Richard Weeks and have supported his fight against injustice since it was first brought to the public's attention last year. I joined other local residents who had come to protest about this matter - and other "skewed decisions" taken by TDC during the eLP Inspection - in public debate at Dawlish Town Council last December. Later that month I spoke up as a member of the public against the Compulsory Purchase of Warren Farm at planning committee at Forde House, prior to the decision to approve the first planning application at DA2. 

I am delighted that AF's petition has chimed with so many other people who do not want to see their local authority use their power (and our public funds) in such a high-handed manner. I am pleased to be joining Richard's 2076 (and counting) other supporters - let's all hope this silence will soon be broken...

3 Agrees
Dorian
Dorian
27 Nov 2014 17:29

Out of interest do any of our Town Councillors have a view?  If I recall the numbers correctly the response to the petition has far exceeded the response to the Lawn proposals.   

2 Agrees
Vennorm
Vennorm
27 Nov 2014 18:54

Apologies if this has already been covered but it seems to me that TDC need to demonstrate that they are complying with the National Planning Policy Framework in regard to this.  Para 112 of the NPPF says, "Local planning authorities should take into account the economic and other benefits of the best and most versatile agricultural land.  Where significant development of agricultural land is demonstrated to be necessary, local planning authorities should seek to use areas of poorer quality land in preference to that of a higher quality."

As I understand it, the land TDC want to grab is wholly or mainly Grade 1. The definition of "best and most versatile agricultural land" in the NPPF is Land in Grades 1, 2 and 3a of the Agricultural Land Classification.

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
28 Nov 2014 12:18

I must give my thanks to Lynne for some of her links to TDC documents and reports. As a consultee to the Green Infrastructure Draft Strategy earlier this year I questioned the shortfall in SANGS that would be provided through a Coastal Park at Warren Farm, particularly as an additional 350 houses were to be built at Shutterton Park as 'windfall development' through permission granted at appeal in September 2013. Whether these houses were included in the Local Plan or not, they still would have needed a provision under SANGS (an additional 6.2 hectares) due to their proximity to Dawlish Warren and the Exe estuary.  

 

The whole Dawlish SANGS Report from May 2013 can be read on Lynne's earlier link:

http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=37826&p=0

 
But these excerpts from the above report are at the nub of this particular arguement:
4.3: Natural England guidelines recommend the provision of 8 hectares of SANGS for
every 1,000 new population. It therefore follows that 3,430 additional persons
through the consented / plan led growth at Dawlish would place a requirement for
27.4 hectares of SANGS. However, new housing elsewhere at nearby Teignmouth
and at other settlements along the coast will also increase the resident population
and place a requirement for mitigation, which could contribute towards SANGS
provision. This SANGS provision must be in addition to other formal and informal
open spaces required by established open space provision standards for new
development in Teignbridge. 

7.4: Option 3 Dawlish Warren – the site’s area is marginally less than the provision requirement of 27.4 hectares.

 

However, this is the statement I was given by Teignbridge in September 2014:

Policy DA6 of the Local Plan provides for approx. 15 hectares of strategic green infrastructure in the area to the south and west of Shutterton Lane and is additional to the coastal park. The coastal park provides sufficient SANGS for all the development and the development at Shutterton Lane includes contributions to the Exe estuary/SANGS and includes open space/green infrastructure within the scheme. There is not considered to be a shortfall in green space or SANGS within the plan or strategy.

 

So contrary to what TDC have stated in their GI Consultation response, there is a requirement for 33.6 hectares of SANGS in Dawlish with only some 22 hectares provided at Warren Farm. That's not a "marginal" shortfall, that's a massive 33% shortfall.

This evidence makes the point that not only is Richard Weeks being short-changed by Teignbridge, the people of Dawlish are also. Time to 'fess up TDC!


9
Lynne
Lynne
28 Nov 2014 14:28
SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
29 Nov 2014 15:19

2185 signatures... and still counting.

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
29 Nov 2014 15:38

Will this petition be acceptable to HM Government? Don't petitions need to contain the signatories postal address (not just their postcode)?

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
29 Nov 2014 16:03

Nothing on the 38 degrees website to suggest otherwise, Judith. So all anyone should need to do to help Richard is to fill in the provided name, email and postcode fields, sign up - and pass the message on!

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
29 Nov 2014 16:24

It doesn't matter that there's nothing on that particular website, if (IF) a full address is legally  required in order for a petition presented to the government to be taken notice by them. 

Lynne
Lynne
29 Nov 2014 16:31

For info:

Extracts from the minutes of the DPNP meeting held 31.5.12 http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=34822&p=0

(SG = Steering Group; NP = Neighbourhood Plan; DPNP=Dawlish Parish Neighbourhood Plan; Core Strategy = Local Plan (which was subsequently adopted May 2014)

Coastal Park – this is a key ingredient of the NP to provide natural green space, and needs to be an early part of it. (page 5)

Cllr Clements commented that the SG has a chance to influence the Core Strategy and once the Core Strategy is adopted it cannot be changed. (page 6)

John Wilkinson . He felt that the country park is TDC’s vision and why is it different from SG’s vision. (page 7)

3.1 Dawlish Coastal Park

The Examiner’s Report highlighted the need for consistency of wording with the Core Strategy Preferred Options document to avoid confusion. The DPNP refers to a ‘Dawlish Coastal Park’ and the Core Strategy refers to ‘Dawlish Warren Coastal Park’. John Wilkinson noted that the development could be severely limited, the Report is questioning the word ‘Dawlish’ opposed to ‘Dawlish Warren’ and does not seem to think it is a different area, to which he disagrees.

 

Marie Stainwright confirmed that the community park is part of what would normally come through a green space provision, where as the coastal park is suitable alternative natural green space (SANGs). TP advised that to mitigate against impacts of increased visitor pressure on the Exe Estuary / Dawlish Warren protected sites it is not sufficient just to take a contribution of £350 per dwelling, there is a need to identify a piece of land to provide suitable alternative natural green space (SANGs). (pages 10&11)

 

Chris Swanwick enquired if the £350 charge will disappear into the CIL monies. TP advised this matter is currently being looked at by the LPA but there is the possibility that it could fall into the total CIL monies. Chris Swanwick then asked if there is going to be sufficient monies coming forward for a coastal park. TP confirmed that this was being looked at as part of the Core Strategy.

Cllr Clayson noted that the Examiner refers to availability of land in 5.16 of the Report. Chris Swanwick enquired if Dawlish should secure land into public ownership or ask TDC to buy it. TP said this is something the LPA is looking at and is working with land owners to bring forward a piece of land. (pages 10&11)

 

 

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
29 Nov 2014 16:41

JC, if you have looked at the website you will have seen the success that 38 degrees has had with individual petitions to date. This one will be no different; it is the weight of public opinion behind the message that counts. Given that this fight to save Warren Farm is gaining around 1000 signatures a week it would be a particularly insensitive minister / councillor / local authority who would take no action.

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
29 Nov 2014 17:09

This post has been removed due to too many reports.

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
29 Nov 2014 17:43

JC, I am of the view that the vast majority of those who have signed up to support Richard Weeks have done so in good faith. I am also certain that those who have positions of responsibility held on the basis of a mandate from the public will think likewise. I trust they will act accordingly.

BTW, is Judith Chalmers your real name?

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
29 Nov 2014 17:47

JC all emails are registered and to get them you have to give personal details, which are on file, therefore could be checked.  This means it is more valid than a person signing a paper petition that could actually put down a fake name and address.

 

The fact that 38degrees.org.uk have won cases means in law the system that they use is regarded as legal.

 

1 Agree
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
29 Nov 2014 18:16

This post has been removed due to too many reports.

1 Agree
SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
29 Nov 2014 19:21

JC, SoulofDawlish (not my real name of course) is my Dawlish.com nom de plume and the name of a rather passionate bunch of local people who are concerned about over-development in Dawlish. SoD can also be found on the Twitter tag @SoulofDawlish - thank you for asking.

As for adding your name twice to a petition, that is not something I would recommend even if you were particularly passionate about a cause. As you quite rightly point out, 38 degrees have been very effective in helping bring about change. I am confident they will continue to do so even if an odd signatory does not always play by the rules. 

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
29 Nov 2014 19:45

I bet this "passionate bunch" all live in houses that were recently fields.  As for my comment re 38degrees, I politely suggest that you SoD read that comment again...

 

The point you're missing re. petitions that have no addresses of the signatories is that the Government will take no notice if there is no way of verifying the authenticity of the signatories. However if you'd have used the e-petition website to set this up...

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
29 Nov 2014 20:17

Sometimes the word vexatious floats to the forefront of my mind.   

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
29 Nov 2014 20:22

JC, perhaps the 38 degree informative below is one reason the person who started this petition did not used the government's e-petition site? As for your comment about local people concerned about over-development, I take it you do not share their view?

 

Why not use the government's e-petitions site?

There are plenty of good reasons to start a petition on Campaigns by You rather than on e-petitions.

The most important one is that government e-petitions are easily ignored by MPs. MPs have a track record of refusing to debate petitions they don't like, so the petition ends up going nowhere.

For example, during the NHS campaign, 38 Degrees members decided to get an already existing NHS e-petition over 100,000 signatures to try to trigger a parliamentary debate. So that's exactly what we did, with the petition eventually passing 170,000 signatures and becoming the biggest petition on the site. However, despite this, MPs simply decided not to hold a debate, and all those signatures were ignored.

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
29 Nov 2014 20:34

SoD, the 38degrees website is deluding itself and deluding people like you. There's been less than 70 petitions on their website. How many "members" does it have - it suggests tens of thousands but obviously that's utter BS.  Why aren't you as cynical about the intentions of the people behind 38degrees as you are about the intentions of TDC?

 

SoD, I don't live in a house that was recently a field. Therefore I don't share their hypocrisy. 

 

Lynne, you say "vexatious", I say "two sides to every story". 

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
30 Nov 2014 00:51

38 degrees provides an independent platform for people to air their concerns - and to encourage support from others. To have provided the medium for almost 70 petitions would seem reason enough for many to trust its efficacy. The people 'behind' 38 degrees are the ordinary man and woman in the street. Insult 38 degrees and you insult them. From what you have written here (and in other discussions) this is not something that would appear to concern you.

8 Agrees
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
30 Nov 2014 09:22

This post has been removed due to too many reports.

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
30 Nov 2014 18:08

2,250 have now signed the e-petition and the word is continuing to spread, like the butterfly effect. The fact that more and more are signing means that people actually care and want to make a difference by taking the time to register on the e-petition.  JC  I feel that whilst so many are positive it only takes one negative comment to have an impact on how people see this cause.  You are trying to do a good job for the Council, but I fear that the people will still see Mr Weeks situation as a disgraceful act by TDC and this will motivate them to be even more proactive in passing on the word.  Thank goodness for those that care about others and are willing to make a stand.

4 Agrees
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
30 Nov 2014 19:32

Absolutely agree Kaz. I signed the petition within 24 hours as there for the grace of God go any of us. We all need to put ourselves in Mr Week's position and ask would we like this to be done to us? For the vast majority the answer would be a resounding NO! There are other sites, far more suitable as has been pointed out, that could be used without taking away a significant proportion of someone's livelihood. I am also, proudly, a member of 38 degrees and know that they have made a significant difference on a variety of BIG issues as well as small issues in localities. I now await the wrath of Mrs C to descend on me.

4 Agrees
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
30 Nov 2014 20:00

This post has been removed due to too many reports.

1 Agree
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
30 Nov 2014 20:43

Just as I predicted! And what a couple of truly dreadful posts. Whoever had posted, I would have made the response but, let's be honest, Mrs C is one on her own.

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
30 Nov 2014 20:56

This post has been removed due to too many reports.

Robert Vickery
Robert Vickery
30 Nov 2014 22:51

I am not convinced that many who have rushed to sign the petition have read the approved Plan Teignbridge and so:

Adopted Teignbridge Local Plan (6th May 2014)

page 122

 

DA7 Dawlish Warren Coastal Park

An area approximately 22 hectares is identified at Dawlish Warren to create a

Coastal Park which shall:

a)

include suitable alternative natural green space and recreation

facilities;

b)

include buildings of an appropriate scale for associated leisure, recreation

and maintenance use; and

c)

contain suitably located ancillary car parking provision.

Any proposals for development shall be accompanied by:

d)

wildlife assessments on the impact of new structures; and

e)

assessment of the impact of any proposed lighting and potential

mitigation.

 

11.15

A Coastal Park is proposed between Dawlish and Dawlish Warren. The main

purpose of the Coastal Park will be to attract visitor pressure away from the

European Sites at Dawlish Warren (SAC) and the Exe Estuary (SPA and RAMSAR),

and as such it will be a piece of strategic infrastructure providing suitable alternative

natural green space (SANGS) over and above open space normally required to

serve new development.   ( my underline and emphasis)

 

11.16

The Coastal Park will include multi use tracks and trails and open space for informal

recreation providing an alternative destination for walkers and dog walking, with

connection to the route of the South West Coastal Path and National Cycle Network

Route 2. It will also serve as a locally important visitor attraction and support tourism

through the inclusion of recreation facilities, potentially a children’s adventure/

sheltered play area, outdoor amphitheatre, and visitor centre.

 

So, is there another site which achieves the objective of diverting visitors from use of the Warren, and how is it to be achieved ?

 

Good night.

1 Agree
Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
30 Nov 2014 23:20

Firstly the Coastal Park goes against many things that Natural England say shouldn't be.

1. Not next to a Sewage Treatment works - smells (that's a must)

2. Not next to a busy road - traffic noise (that's a must)

3 Concern that it doesn't link back to the Nature Reserve - It is served by the South West Coastal Path and that links back.  Provide free parking and increase the charges at Dawlish Warren Carparks then all that happens is people will park at the top in the free carpark and walk down the South West Coastal Park to the Warren/Nature Reserve.  It doesn't take someone smart to work that one out!

However, if we had a Country Park at the back of Gatehouse, then all the new dwellings could access it, as well as those dwellings located in Dawlish Central and North East wards.  The new proposed link road from the Sainsbury's Roundabout to Elm Grove Road would pass near and allow for people using the bus to access it also with relative ease.  

People I have talked to say they would prefer the Country Park for these reasons:

1. They would have hedges to shelter behind in the winter when walking, unlike the bleak Coastal Park where the bitter winds would cut across making it quite unpleasant, or the smell of sewage in the warmer months.

2. The Coastal Park has sea views, but what else?  The Country Park would have views to Exmouth, Haldon etc. and the fields/trees are constantly changing colour throughout the year!

Maybe this is what Teignbridge should ask the residents what they actually want out of a park and not just assume that we have no minds of our own and no vision for Dawlish!

4 Agrees
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
30 Nov 2014 23:36

How arrogant of Robert Vickery to assume that many of us have not read the plan. I have read the plan but even if I hadn't I would have signed the petition for the reasons I stated above. I find it interesting that he has only decided to post after I have posted, total silence up until that point

4 Agrees
HuwMatthews2
HuwMatthews2
01 Dec 2014 01:48

Why not put the SANGS in the already designated Undeveloped Coastal Zone (EN2 - I believe!).

 

That would kill 2 birds with one stone as that land can't be developed anyway.

 

To take land from a working farmer is abhorrent! 

2 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
01 Dec 2014 06:07

So........when the TDC planning application to turn Warren Farm into a Coastal Park finds its way to our town council's planning committee so as they can make their recommendation(s) I wonder what it is they will recommend?

Anyone?

For info here are the Dawlish councillors who sit on the town council's planning committee (from DTC website)

Cllr. H. Almond (ex-officio)            Cllr. Mrs. P. Bloomfield – Vice Chairman
Cllr. G. Fenne                               Cllr M Lowther
Cllr J Petherick (ex-officio)             Cllr L Petherick
Cllr. Mrs. R. Prowse                       Cllr M Swift

Cllr. R. Vickery – Chairman 

 

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
01 Dec 2014 06:56

To be fair, most people have only signed the petition because of the impact of the proposal on Farmer Weeks' estate. The rest of the mumbo-jumbo that you're all blathering on about, they couldn't give a stuff. 

Lynne
Lynne
01 Dec 2014 07:17

So......let's divide this up shall we into two aspects.

1. The impact on Richard Weeks' livelihood, the for need local food production, compulsory order etc  - moral issue - lots of people will identify with that. 

and

2. Whether or not what is being proposed complies with the SANGS requirements. That is a planning issue.

When push comes to shove it is planning transgressions that will hold the greatest sway legally but enough people being het up about (1) and the politicians will either sit up and take notice or risk feeling the wrath of the people come the elections in May 2015.

Both cards need playing.   

 

roberta
roberta
01 Dec 2014 08:38

This thread has become too long it takes ages to scroll down, and if I was honest most of it goes over my head anyway sad

Lynne
Lynne
01 Dec 2014 08:45

Yes I agree it is a very long thread. Perhaps someone would like to start another one? (If I do that I can imagine the reaction from certain quarters..........).

The issue (s)going over people's heads? - Yes I strongly suspect that they do and I alluded to that on another thread.

Trouble is that when issues go over people's heads, in this case planning legislation, other people can run rings around them as I fear has happened with Richard Weeks. 

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
01 Dec 2014 08:46

Mrs C, how can you possibly know that without actually speaking to the 2000+ people who have signed the petition. You sound as arrogant as Robert Vickery. The vast majority of people do know what they are doing and why they are doing it and Lynne, Kaz and many others on this thread have provided clear evidence and cogent arguments for not putting the coastal park where TDC have proposed. 

Dorian
Dorian
01 Dec 2014 08:54

This thread has been up for a year and has been active for two months yet there hasn't been a peep from the usually mouthy Margaret Swift.  Now she realises that it's safe to nail her colours to Mr Week's mast AND can perpetuate her bitchfest with JC, she finally swoops in with her puffed up ego in full feather trying to position herself as champion of the cause and do down a fellow Councillor into the bargain.   Shamelessly transparent! 

 

Webmaster - are you able to reverse threads so recent posts are at the top, am getting RSI scrolling down them.

5 Agrees
Robert Vickery
Robert Vickery
01 Dec 2014 08:56

Thank you Mrs S for calling me arrogant twice in the space of ten hours.  Roberta is quite right. This thread is too long and not reaching a positive conclusion, even after Lynne has posted 49 times to no evident effect.

There is no point in trying to get changes through the Town Council. It is the District Councillors that objectors need to reach and , as far as I can see, none of them are reading you.  Lynne posted their names somewhere up above, but they are also identified on the back page of the Town Crier.

G'day

 

3 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
01 Dec 2014 09:09

Don't our town councillors talk to our district ones then? 

3 Agrees
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
01 Dec 2014 09:14

Corrrrrr.............don't know what I ever did to upset Dorian but it must have been pretty bad! 

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
01 Dec 2014 09:23

I think the evident effect of Lynne's postings and those of others is the 2000+ signatures.

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
01 Dec 2014 11:07

Stick with us, Roberta - the thread is this long only because it is such a concerning issue.

Have you tried using the 'End' button on your keyboard? It should get you there straight away.

I only have a brick for a phone so I do not know if there's an app for that... anyone else?

 

 

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
01 Dec 2014 11:57

This post has been removed due to too many reports.

2 Agrees
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
01 Dec 2014 17:21

No you can't, choose your own words! 

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
01 Dec 2014 17:28

@Mrs C 24 November 20.34. You are so out of touch!

 

38 Degrees Logo
 



Good news: public pressure, and a huge petition signed by 38 Degrees members, has forced George Osborne into announcing a whopping £3bn of extra funding for our NHS. [1]

This extra cash will go a long way towards narrowing the funding gap that experts says could take our NHS close to a “cliff edge” next year. [2]

A huge chunk of the extra cash is coming from the money big banks like HSBC and RBS coughed up in fines. [3] 129,000 of us got together and signed a petition to George Osborne telling him we wanted the bankers' fines to go to our NHS - and he’s agreed! [4]

Let’s celebrate this step forward. Can you share the image below on Facebook to spread the message that we love our NHS and we’re here to protect it:

unnamed%20%283%29






PS: 38 Degrees members had another success on the NHS last week! Together, 75,000 of us pressured Jeremy Hunt’s executives into publishing details of the money they spend on private companies. Now we can see who’s who is carving out a profit from our health service. Read more here: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/nhs-england-spending



 

 

1 Agree
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
01 Dec 2014 18:12

They keep talking about "members".  You don't have to be a member to sign their petitions. If they feel that their petition "forced" Osborne to make his decision, then they're entitled to think that. As deluded (arrogant) as it might be. 

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
01 Dec 2014 20:08

JC you are definitely a cup half empty person, aren't we. Those who post information that others might find of interest are just enabling them to have the information to make an informed judgement, this about issues that will impact on all residents of Dawlish now and for generations to come. It will also have a financial impact on Dawlish with not just the purchasing of the land, but the ongoing monitoring of wildlife along with major infrastructure costs in relation to new visitor centre and carparks etc.  Therefore, it is more than buying the land, because at some point the developer's contributions will run out and then the council will be adding a charge to your council tax bills to fund this! It might be in 10 or 15 years, but it will come like the garden waste tax, but this will not be optional!  

2 Agrees
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
01 Dec 2014 20:37

Of the threads posted to on here in the last week, where there has only been one post on the thread, they were viewed between 10 times and 54 times. Suggesting that circa 50 people read our ramblings on the forum. To say that posts on here have had the effect of making 2000+ people sign a petition is nonsense.  I maintain my humble opinion about sympathy signatures. 

 

My glass is definitely half full Kaz, just not as full as some posters' on here at certain times of night...

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
01 Dec 2014 20:47

I think Mrs C's glass is never full for very long judging by her posts! 

4 Agrees
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
01 Dec 2014 21:16

That's right. I'm a raging Alky me. You'll find me on the "piazza" most days...

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
03 Dec 2014 07:11
1 Agree
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
03 Dec 2014 07:19

Thanks for link Lynne. The article (on-line version at least) only mentions the plight of Farmer Weeks. Maybe someone should write a letter to the Gazette to inform them that they have forgotten the importance of Article 3.4.2, Subsection 23/14/2 on page 87. The devil's in the detail!

Lynne
Lynne
03 Dec 2014 07:31

Article 3.4.2, Subsection 23/14/2 on page 87. 

Would help if you gave us the title of the document or whatever it is where we can find this particular page 87

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
03 Dec 2014 07:56

You must missed that memo Lynne! :-)

Lynne
Lynne
03 Dec 2014 08:16

Thank you for posting on this thread so much JC as everytime you do that and in doing so provoke a response or two this thread just keeps finding its way to the top of the pile.

I'm sure Farmer Weeks is very grateful for your help in keeping his plight to the forefront of our minds.

 

3 Agrees
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
03 Dec 2014 08:45

I'd hope that Farmer Weeks is grateful, as we all signed that petition in order to protect his estate for himself and his family! Long may this thread continue! Not sure why you'd think that I'd hope otherwise. 

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
03 Dec 2014 13:36

Absolutely right, Lynne. While it is utterly disingenuous to boast proudly of supporting a cause without assisting others in its common purpose, these self-serving tactics do have a positive benefit in helping keep the issue of Warren Farm in the spotlight. 

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
06 Dec 2014 12:18

Just a handful of on-line petition signatures needed to bring up the 2500 milestone! Has everyone in your household who supports Richard Weeks' Warren Farm signed yet?

 

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/immoral-tactics-of-teignbridge-district-council#

 

Lynne
Lynne
07 Dec 2014 08:31

Richard Weeks along with some of his sheep will be at the Dawlish Christmas market today. You'll find him (and them) outside the URC on the Strand.

If you haven't signed the petition yet this will be an ideal time to do so.     

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
07 Dec 2014 09:36

2500 signatures now on the petition in support of Richard Weeks in his battle with Teignbridge...

Lynne
Lynne
07 Dec 2014 13:36

I've just come back from the Christmas market helping Richard and family with their petition.

People were queuing up to sign and at one point someone had to nip off somewhere fast to get some more petition forms printed off such was the number signing.    

1 Agree
Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
07 Dec 2014 14:21

I and my family have all signed the epetition and it makes me feel proud to be a resident of Dawlish. I have told friends and they have passed the messege on to their friends like a ripple effect.  My daughter is going to a christmas party with over 70 attendees and the organiser said she could bring the petition and get as many people as possible to sign.  Everyone counts in the fight against TDC and I will keep a copy with me for friends I know haven't signed yet! I would have loved to see Richard and the sheep today, but yesterday I was struck down by a sickness bug and though a little better today, I am still feeling a bit weak.  So hearing the good news has cheered me up no end.

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
07 Dec 2014 19:44

Good to have met up again with Richard and his family (and his sheep!) at today's Christmas market. Literally hundreds of people adding their names to the petition in support throughout the day.

Lovely also to have met up with Alison Foden, the lady who single-handedly kicked off the 38 degree petition. Thank you Alison for your stand which - as we now know - represents the concerns of a large cross-section of Dawlish residents.

So the sun shone, the stallholders did well, the town was in festive cheer - and for good measure, local politicians' feet were held to the fire. There should be more days like this in Dawlish!

2 Agrees
Mcjrpc
Mcjrpc
07 Dec 2014 21:12

I stopped at the stall today and want to double check something.   Is it right that the owners of the land earmarked for the housing development also own Options 1 and 2 earmarked for SANGS, which happen to be adjacent to the proposed housing, as opposed to Option 3 (Weekes Farm) some distance away?   Is it also true that the landowner prefers to hold on to Options 1&2 for further housing development than give it over for SANGS?  

 

The name Jeffreys was mentioned.  Any connection to the Jeffery family Lynne previously mentioned as owning Lady's Mile and Cofton holiday parks and who are in dispute?   

 

 

2 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
08 Dec 2014 08:02

@Kaz - any chance you could answer Mcjrpc's query as you seem to be the font of all knowledge when it comes to who owns what land and where.

https://www.facebook.com/warrenfarmdawlish

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
08 Dec 2014 11:22

I will try, but I don't know everything so have had to look it up on the planning portal and ask around.

Option 1 land at Langdon Farm is owned by the owner of Gatehouse Farm (George Jeffery, Cofton Holiday Park) who is one of the major landowners in Da2 here is the plan lodged at TDC in relation to barn conversions in 1989.

http://docimages.teignbridge.gov.uk/Planning/StreamDocPage/obj.pdf?DocNo=928867&PDF=true&content=obj.pdf

 

Option 2 is a little trickier as it is in multiple ownerships.  What I understand is the Eastdon Wood is George Jeffery's, then Airways Farms (Richard Cotton) who have just sold a large parcel of land at Cofford Farm have another large parcel of it, with a few smaller owners including Mr Weeks.

This being the case and if a developer was to provide the SANGS then Langdon Farm land would be the obvious choice, as it is under one ownership, and also adjacent to the Da2 development.  It is available, because has been offered before in connection with the first phase development of 75 at Gatehouse.  Option 2 would meet the guidance of interception better and is a larger allocation to meet the short fall and as pointed out people are using the wood for dog walking, though unofficially.  However, if the SANGS are for the DA2 development then they should be linked to it and maybe further land behind Option 1 could be used to make up the shortfall.

 

I hope this clarifies a few things

 

 
SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
08 Dec 2014 11:47

Link to the Design and Access Statement for Gatehouse Farm, Dawlish - 12/03797/MAJ - below:

 

http://docimages.teignbridge.gov.uk/Planning/StreamDocPage/obj.pdf?DocNo=2733926&PageNo=1&content=obj.pdf

 

Note that although this application is in relation to the first 75 homes on this site (DA2), reference is made to the ridge top 'country park' (and its roots in the DPNP) on pages 3, 6, 8, 18 & 19.

Lynne
Lynne
08 Dec 2014 11:52

er........so why hasn't TDC gone for Option 1 then?

6 Agrees
Mcjrpc
Mcjrpc
08 Dec 2014 14:08

Indeed, this is a bigger story than one man resisting a CPO of his farm,  it needs to get to the bottom of why TDC is ignoring the two most obvious and adjacent sites.   The owners of those sites will be quids in if they can sidestep an agricultural price for SANGS in favour of a more lucrative housing development price.  Why is TDC supporting them?    Do these landowners (who clearly have other significant commercial interests in the area) have more influence with TDC than we know about?  

7 Agrees
leatash
leatash
09 Dec 2014 09:20

And the penny starts to drop.

3 Agrees
Letter writer AF
Letter writer AF
09 Dec 2014 20:52

We'll be handing in the petitions with all signatures to date this Friday to Parliament. 

2566 online and 1177 on paper.

Letter writer AF
Letter writer AF
09 Dec 2014 21:10

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/immoral-tactics-of-teignbridge-district-council

There's still time to sign online, or one of the paper copies around the town.

 

 
Lynne
Lynne
10 Dec 2014 08:53
Lynne
Lynne
10 Dec 2014 17:46

I've just been looking on the Dawlish Airshow website and saw this: Dawlish Air Show has event parking for 1500 vehicles.  I tried e-mailing them via their 'contact us' form but it wouldn't work so perhaps someone could forward this question onto them or even answer it themselves on here.

My question is: I believe Dawlish Air Show uses Warren Farm for parking. So, have you (Dawlish Air Show) any idea where parking could take place in the event that Warren Farm becomes a coastal park?      

flo
flo
10 Dec 2014 17:53

have you tried asking their facebook page @Lynne?

 

https://www.facebook.com/DawlishAirShow?ref=ts&fref=ts

Lynne
Lynne
10 Dec 2014 17:54

I don't have an fb account.

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
10 Dec 2014 20:15

Lynne this is all I can find on facebook 

email Gareth Stringer, our Press Officer

pressofficer@dawlishairshow.co.uk

or failing that info@dawlishairshow.co.uk

 

The committee consists of five unpaid volunteers (from left to right – Emma Nankervis, Jenny Connor, Matt Simmons, Ali Aitchison and Kevin Wills) who all work tirelessly all year round to put on the great spectacle that is Dawlish Air Show. We are supported by a larger working group, who between them bring various skills vital to the safe running and management of such a large event.

http://dawlishairshow.co.uk/newindex/about-dawlish-air-show/

Dawlish Airshow Ltd. is a company registered in England with company no. 07210463

Registered address: 17 Stockton Hill, Dawlish, Devon EX7 9LP

 

Lynne
Lynne
11 Dec 2014 08:53

Thanks for the info Kaz. I've now sent an e-mail.

@Mcjrpc - I suspect (and in the absence of proof, suspicion is all it can be) that the reason TDC wish to not have a SANGS up in option 1 (ie Langdon Farm area) or even option 2 is that should more house building be needed then that land would be available (although of course if there is even more house building then surely more SANGS will be needed? so.......other landowners in the area beware!).

This would be a win win situation for TDC (available land) and the landowners (land scheduled for housing more valuable than agricultual land).

 

also! more houses = more new homes bonus (if it still exists then) for TDC plus more CIL money for TDC. And don't forget that Dawlish will get 15% of the CIL levy from the building of these new homes and this can be increased by another 10% when it has formulated a new Neighbourhood Plan. Then on top of all that I guess all the new residents will be paying community tax to TDC. So, quids in for everyone then?

(except of course for the sacrificial lambs at Warren Farm..................) 

2 Agrees
SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
11 Dec 2014 09:26

The grapevine has it that ITV will be at Warren Farm today to cover the story so far. Richard Weeks and Martin Wrigley (Cockwood Residents Association chairman) will be there - not sure whether John Goodey or anyone else from TDC will show. Might be worth tuning in to the lunchtime/evening news.

 

BTW, I keep a pretty close eye on planning and development matters in our green and pleasant land, but forgive me if I have missed something... does anyone know why a dozen or more holiday chalets have recently appeared on the skyline at Lady's Mile, just across the road from Warren Farm? I though this upper field was for touring caravans and tents, between May and September only. Just asking.

 

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 09:44

SoD, they're the old ones that have been moved from Oakcliffe to make way for their new Exe View lodge development. These mobile homes have been moved to the old Seaways site temporarily and won't be occupied.  Happy to help. 

 

 

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
11 Dec 2014 10:27

I'm mighty relieved to learn that - but should not permission be sought first? The planning condition attached to this approved planning permission (08/02952/MAJ) reads thus:

14. No touring caravans or tents shall be sited on the land other than between 15 May
and 30 September in any year.
REASON:-To protect the appearance of the Area of Great Landscape Value and Coastal
Preservation Area. 
 
While I have every sympathy for a local company wishing to go about its own business in an efficient manner as possible, this should not be at the expense of the AGLV or CPA (which contribute considerably to the visual amenity enjoyed by Dawlish residents) nor at the expedience of the express conditions laid down by the Council.
2 Agrees
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 10:31

SoD, these aren't touring caravans or tents. And what visual amenity are they interrupting??

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
11 Dec 2014 10:35

It would seem beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 10:45

A politicians non-answer! What visual amenity is being impaired by these mobile homes being parked up there?

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
11 Dec 2014 10:51

Even to someone who appears blind to other people's viewpoints, this should be perfectly clear.

It is an Area of Great Landscape Value. THE CLUE IS IN THE TITLE

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 11:15

...but only for a few months a year it would seem. 

 

SoD, you can only see those mobile homes if you're standing outside the sewage works and peering trough the hedge. Why you'd do that is anyone's guess.  Have you dredged up any files that relate to mobile homes - because the one you pasted about the tourers and tents appears to be irrelevant. 

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
11 Dec 2014 11:37

So.........to get back to the plight of Warren Farm.

To add to my posting of earlier today @08.53.

That Dawlish could benefit quite substantially by having lots of new houses built here (the livelihood of a local farmer being sacrificed in the process) might, might, explain the resounding silence from our local councillors (Margaret S. being the exception).

To have money for Dawlish or help save a working farm and a family's livelihood? Is that the question? 

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
11 Dec 2014 11:41

@JudithChalmers:

You seem to be making a case for the (alleged) transgressor here, rather than for the people you purport to represent. If you look more closely at the planning files you will see exact;ly why these conditions have been put in place.

 

The very serious point of the matter is this: if Teignbridge's own planning rules can be bent with impunity in this fashion, how can there be any public trust that the purchase of Warren Farm (compulsory or otherwise) by Teignbridge will not result in the creeping commercialisation of the last vestiges of our undeveloped coast?

1 Agree
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 12:17

SoD, I purport to represent nobody but myself!

I believe that your issue is not with the land that these are temporarily sited on, but with the surname of the landowners.  You still haven't pointed out where it states anything about mobile homes - if you do then I'll support you (for what it's worth) in your campaign to have them removed - I assume that there'll be a "signme" petition?

1 Agree
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 12:37

Well SoD, I've had a look at the application that you're being so vociferous about, and sadly for you it's got nothing to do with the location where the mobile homes have been temporarily placed. You are on about the mobile homes on the old Seaways site aren't you?  Attention to detail, and all that. 

 

If so, have another look at the site map in relation to the actual location before you apologise to the landowner and TDC. Thanks. 

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
11 Dec 2014 12:53

@Judith Chalmers:

I know little about the land owners other than what is already public knowledge. On this matter also, you would seem to have me at an advantage.

 

The granting of conditional planning permission for the planning application 08/02952/MAJ is quite clear in what is not permitted - and what is. I have read it carefully - I suggest you (and anyone else with concerns on this matter) do likewise.

 

As it happens, I do have another petition in mind, but it is not related to a single planning matter. There will be plenty of opportunity to add your valued support, but - in deference to those looking to this thread for news about Warren Farm - it will be the subject of a separate discussion.

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 13:12

SoD. Have another look at the clearly defined geographical area of the planning application you refer to. That area, and ergo the conditions of what is and what is not included, doesn't include the location of these temporarily placed mobile homes which are on the Seaways field nearest to Warren Road.  Try again. 

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
11 Dec 2014 14:01

The land I believe you are refering to is that covered by PP 10/02648/MAJ which, you will note, is similarly conditioned.

Mcjrpc
Mcjrpc
11 Dec 2014 14:06

SoulofDawlish - by bringing up the subject of these mobile homes on Lady's Mile and clearly having dug deep into their planning applications,  I'm wondering if you have a larger axe to grind than the subject of Mr Week's farm?    If so it makes me uncomfortable as I have supported his plight in good faith. 

2 Agrees
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 14:09

Apology accepted SoD. 

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 14:40

I'm currently stood at the gates to Warren Farm. And I can't see any livestock. In fact all I can see is arable (non food producing) green fields. And a horse. There must be some mistake. Maybe I signed a petition to save a working farm somewhere else?

1 Agree
HowardAlmond
HowardAlmond
11 Dec 2014 14:47

I can’t speak for other local councillors but I certainly have been concerned about this issue, and am listening to what people in the town are saying.

Some agencies seem to be interested in having the park as close to the Warren as possible so that holidaymakers and locals alike will spend time there rather than on the Warren itself. The reconfiguration of the sea defences on the Warren itself will result eventually in a reduction of the accessible beach, reducing the amenity value.

 

My own view is that given the choice people will generally go for a walk on the beach rather than a walk across fields/grass, and a reduction in beach space will result in a reduction in visitors.

 

All things being equal, if all landowners agree, then I think with the inevitable beach reduction, and provided some thought is given to the amenities available in the Country Park (Neighbourhood plan is important here) the proposed site is the best option.

 

However – it is clear that all things are not equal so a rethink is required.

The ‘country park’ would end up providing the Sangs requirements and would/could be sited nearer to the new housing developments. It would be unlikely to attract the visitor element, and certainly not day trippers arriving by bus and train.

The holiday industry at the Warren could take a big hit in the long term unless better attractions and more amenities are provided. 

There is also the issue that any amenities on the coastal park will need to be maintained, which can be expensive. 

Here's a thought... what about if some money could be granted to Mr Weekes to help him turn the farm itself into a visitor attraction whilst keeping it as a working farm - thus keeping everybody happy? There's the Forest Funghi operation right next door which would also benefit.

There would still need to be some open space elsewhere to satisfy the Sangs requirement, but a working farm open to visitors could also count towards that provision, and would keep the Warren as a very attractive holiday destination.

 

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 14:54

Strolling further down Warren Road, I've found a field backing onto the hotel that's got a couple or three dozen sheep in it!! And another with a couple of horses...

Mcjrpc
Mcjrpc
11 Dec 2014 15:15

JC - I'm not sure that proves anything.  When I walk by Seven Sisters sometimes there are cows and/or sheep in the field and sometimes there aren't.  I'm no farmer but I used to live opposite a farm and the cattle were never in the same place all the time. 

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 15:34

Mcjrpc. I'm not saying that it proves anything. However if these empty fields form one third of Farmer Weeks' estate, what's happening on the other two thirds?

 

SoD. I've now had a look at the second set of plans that you've found. There's still no reference to mobile homes (even unoccupied ones!) - only tourers and tents. There's also this gem in the decision notice: "Whilst the site displays some characteristics of the Area of Great Landscape Value, it has been influenced by nearby holiday development which has weakened its rural character and quality. Notwithstanding the Coastal Preservation Area designation, the site is not generally visible from cliff top, beach, sea or estuary and the development would not detract from the unspoilt character and appearance of the undeveloped coast."

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
11 Dec 2014 15:38

@Mcjrpc:

Thanks for your comments. 

There are many factors that have led to the decision by Teignbridge to plump for Warren Farm for a 'coastal park' and for SANGS provision. I will not list them all here as most have been covered adequately (or through the various links) however one of the most important elements, delivery - and the social cost of the displacement of Richard Weeks and his family - appears to have been down-played. There are many good sites elsewhere (with the Lady's Mile fields, on the prominent Dawlish Warren headland, seemingly well positioned to provide a supporting role for SANGS) why cannot these be selected instead?

Most of the people I have listened to speak about their sense of injustice; that they had assumed (as did I) that a deal had already been done and that was simply the end of it. Richard (realising his predicament perhaps somewhat belatedly) has now made it abundantly clear: Warren Farm is not for sale. He therefore has my fullest and continuing support - and I hope yours also.

roberta
roberta
11 Dec 2014 15:44

Ive read that Langstone Cliff will lose some of their land as well along with Mr Weekes

Lynne
Lynne
11 Dec 2014 15:53

@roberta - you could well be right. certainly there is land in other ownership (for example the land where the open market gets held during the summer) that has also been eyeballed by TDC for this coastal park.  

 

HuwMatthews2
HuwMatthews2
11 Dec 2014 16:02

I don't see why Teignbridge don't use land they already own for the SANG-S. As I understand it they own most of the land between Breakneck and Strawberry Lane/Oak Hill Cross Road. That would provide superb views and protect that land from being built on.

 

I suppose they don't want to do that that as development land is much more valuable!

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 17:26

The second lot of horses that I thought I saw in the distance are actually donkeys! Is that what they mean by biodiversity?

 

SoD, did you manage to dig up anything related to mobile homes not being allowed to be stored on the old Seaways?

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
11 Dec 2014 18:22

As a matter of fact, yes. Unless my compass has let me down (that's my actual compass, not the moral variety which appears to have gone astray at Teignbridge HQ), it would appear both sites have mobile homes on them. 

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
11 Dec 2014 18:29

BTW, you should stick to travel documentaries, Judith. Someone who does not know their ass from their equine cousins should not be preaching on countryside matters.

3 Agrees
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 19:49

This post has been removed due to too many reports.

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 20:29

This post has been removed due to too many reports.

j0c123
j0c123
11 Dec 2014 20:44

Sorry I'm new here. I pressed the wrong button. I went to undo but I could'nt. Sorry.

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 21:02

Thanks for holding your hand up. Not many people press the Agree button on my posts, so it's ironic that when someone tries to they press the button next to Agree lol. 

 

Congratulations on your first post being post #200 on this thread. 

Mcjrpc
Mcjrpc
11 Dec 2014 21:58

SoD - Mr Weeks had my support even before its recent surge of momentum but beware of mission creep.   If you start making mischief over Lady's Mile and getting at JC because she doesn't see it the same way you could end up looking vindictive.  That's when support could start falling away.  Keep focussed on the orginal goal. 

2 Agrees
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
11 Dec 2014 22:26

I find it intriguing that a little bit of research on Google finds that Farmer Weekes has stated that he's been in favour of building housing on a greenfield site in Cockwood. On whose land is anyone's guess...

Lynne
Lynne
12 Dec 2014 07:48

The issue on this thread concerns the saving of Warren Farm, not any other farm or land (unless the losing of Warren Farm then means the loss of other land owned by Mr Weeks). I don't know if the greenfield site in Cockwood to which JC refers is in Richard's ownership or not but even if it were to be perhaps it is the case that Richard could lose that land to housing and it would not have a negative impact on his livelihood. The point about Warren Farm is, as I understand it, that it is needed for farming and other activities that between them and his farming on his other land provide Richard and his family with a means of making a living. If Warren Farm goes, so does the Weeks' livelihood. What bit of that is it that some people seem to think is okay?

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
12 Dec 2014 08:15

Who has said that is okay?

Lynne
Lynne
12 Dec 2014 08:24

Those who support TDC's proposal.

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
12 Dec 2014 09:06

Richard Weeks (and Martin Wrigley, Cockwood Residents Association chairman) did a piece for ITV yesterday at Warren Farm. TDC were unable to attend, however it is understood they may be interviewed on camera today. Most likely TV appearance is following the late evening news but it may be worth keeping an eye on earlier local news slots also. 

Lynne
Lynne
12 Dec 2014 11:14

As there were postings on this thread yesterday concerning farming activities or, more to the point, the apparent lack of them at Warren Farm I took the liberty of asking Richard Weeks what type of farming activity takes place there. This is what he told me.

"There are cattle there at the moment all steers and some Aberdeen Angus. The sheep in the field are with young lambs. We have around 20 acres of spring barley growing in the spring so that can't be seen at the moment. Hay and  silage are produced at the farm from the grass that grows there but we wont be hay making at this time of the year. Straw and hay are stored in the barn..The main sheep flock(along with the suckler beef heard) is is at Eastdon and will be lambing shortly. I need them near the farm house to keep an eye-on them."

  

Nanny taxi
Nanny taxi
12 Dec 2014 12:08

Lynne thank you for putting this information in the public domain, as non-farmers wouldn't realised half of what goes on.  The fact is that lambing can be difficult and as such you need to be living on site, as it is a 24 hour activity.  Lambs don't just get born in daylight hours!  This being the case you need somewhere to rest/sleep and get hot food an drinks on rota.  The agricultural barn at Warren Farm is not suitable for humans or sheep in these cold, wet days and therefore Richard has no choice by to move all livestock back to Eastdon!

 

 

 

 

SoulofDawlish
SoulofDawlish
13 Dec 2014 07:47

For the benefit of those 1000-plus people who have signed the paper petition and who have been following events on this discussion thread, this email was received yesterday by 38 degrees signatories:

 

Dear Friends,

Thank you for signing the petition 'Immoral tactics of Teignbridge District Council'.  We will be handing this petition in to the the offices of the Department of Local Government & Communities, and to the offices of DEFRA (department of the Environment and Rural Affairs) in Westminster this Friday 12th December.

We will continue to collect signatures to grow our campaign, so please can you continue to spread the word by forwarding the link below to your friends?

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/immoral-tactics-of-teignbridge-district-council

Thank you very much for your support.

Regards,

Alison Foden

 

PS TDC did not send anyone to meet the ITV Westcountry team - and instead issued a statement, which did not make the airwaves. Meanwhile in the corridors of power at TDC HQ, the fight against this injustice also intensifies...

Lynne
Lynne
13 Dec 2014 08:49

ITV could still air what they filmed and then read the TDC statement. Nothing stopping them from doing that. 

Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
13 Dec 2014 11:32

Thanks Lynne for taking the time to ask Farmer Weekes about his empty fields. Us townies clearly don't understand the ways of the country. 

Lynne
Lynne
13 Dec 2014 14:43

Quite. So perfectly understandable then that farmers (and all other non planning people) won't necessarily understand the implications of their property being eyed up by planners whose aim could well be that the property in question should be used for something other than its present use. 

In this particular instance for privately owned Warren Farm to become a publicly owned coastal park.

This idea I understand was first mooted publicly by TDC planners some three years or so ago. But who knows how long before that was it floating around in the minds of TDC planners eh? I mean, I should sincerely hope that professional planners would have known all about the SANGS requirement and the number of houses roughly needing to be built in Teignbridge and in particular near to the Warren NNR and the Exe estuary way before the Dawlish neighbourhood plan #1 Steering Group was convened some 3 years or so ago.  

 

1 Agree
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
13 Dec 2014 21:33

Well said Lynne. I find the silence from Dawlish Town Coucil quite disturbing given we have a retired architect/planning expert on the council who is in a good position to advise us. 

2 Agrees
Judith Chalmers
Judith Chalmers
13 Dec 2014 21:38

keep calm and jump on the bandwagon

Lynne
Lynne
14 Dec 2014 07:45

Well now.........thinking about it.......when I said that Warren Farm could be turned into a publicly owned coastal park maybe that would not necessarily be the case.

Suppose that TDC were to get its way and Warren Farm land ends up in TDC's ownership. Suppose then that the monies coming in from the CIL were not so great as had been anticipated and/or that CIL money planned to be spent on Local and Neighbourhood plan projects had then to be diverted to other uses - in such a scenario (which with continued central government cutbacks on local government finances could well be the case) projects such as the coastal park at Dawlish could take a back seat/need an injection of cash from somewhere else.

Private sector commercialisation of said coastal park to the rescue perhaps?

Could it end up being a bit like what is to be found at Land's End in Cornwall? http://www.landsend-landmark.co.uk/

 

1 Agree
webmaster
webmaster
11 Jan 2015 20:28

Thread continues here:-

Land Grab at the Warren Part 2

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