Dawlish Discussion

Whilst appreciating that the bid to the CCF has not been approved for a replacement bandstand etc it did at least if nothing else raise awareness amonst the residents of Dawlish and highlighted a desire to move forward with a replacement bandstand.

Where do we go from here?

I have a suggestion; perhaps those who via this website and also via the letters page of the Dawlish Gazette who were so robustly critical of the recent proposals should now form a group, elect a chair and then organise a public meeting to consult with the local residents and then decide how the town can move forward. 

The main objectors to the project have demonstrated that they have an appeitite to co ordinate and communicate with a group of like minded individuals; perhaps their energy could now be channelled towards a scheme that will help to regenerate the town centre. 

Hopefully this group could then focus their skills and submit a bid to the Lottery Fund for a replacement bandstand. 

Presumably those who were strongly opposed to the proposal are now whooping with delight and feeling elated that the current bandstand will remain in place, has the time come for you to now grasp the nettle, and, stand up and be counted?

I think we all know that they'll do no such thing. That'd be far too positive, and as we know the elderly rank and file don't do positive. They always have to be 'against' something.  Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong...

I had hoped that my discussion topic would have attracted a swift response from those who has used the bandstand project as platform from which to brutally criticise the performance of some Town Councillors and also demand resignations.

It would appear that the objectors are just full of hiss and importance and have now faded into the background.

I have found the drawings for a new bandstand prepared for the Millennium, and the Planning approval given then (but expired in 2005). There were objectors to that one too, which was of a more traditional form.  Peter Large was on the Council at the time and Chairman of Finance and General Purposes, and when we need finance ....................but I won't speculate and cause offence.

Your proposal, Likeablerat, is very sound and should be put to Peter Cross, new Chairman of the Community Interest Company.  ( You may like to read his letter of objection to the planning application for the present scheme.  It is on the TDC schedule as 14/01275. )

When the funfair leaves and the Air Show is over and the bowlers pack up for the winter, the Lawn will be a lovely empty space once again with an unusable shed in the middle. That is the challenge for the new design team and I will sit back and wait for their innovative solution.

Perhaps the CIC (via the Gazette?) could ask for ideas on what should replace the  present bandstand. Might provide some food for thought. (Wonder if children would be allowed to participate though...............?)

Agreed, maybe the objectors will enlist the services of a Pied Piper who will then remove the children from the equation; Gulp! and me! 

Just to complete the picture, I did suggest at the Town Council meeting this week that a new group be formed consisting of equal numbers of residents, traders and Councillors to progress the replacement of the bandstand. This idea was not well received by a number of Councillors including Councillor Vickery. It was decided that the town centre working group should carry forward any proposals. We have two Councillors, a District Councillor and the Mayor on this Teignbridge led group. The Mayor asked if I would take his place and I agreed. It was put to the vote and nine of the twelve Councillors supported the proposal, one was against and two abstained. So, the town centre working group will be initially charged with carrying forward the proposals.

Finally, as we have heard from so many people during the consultation process, it is the fact that we in Dawlish do have a large open space for people to enjoy all year round that is the attraction to residents and visitors alike and gives Dawlish its own individual character.

Should I go off topic and post something about the correct use of the apostrophe?

The Devon Garden Trust submitted some interesting comments to TDC regarding the Lawn 

We would ask you to persuade Dawlish Town Council to reconsider their

proposals and, rather than introducing more clutter onto The Lawn, to seriously

consider commissioning a Landscape Strategy and Management Plan from a

landscape architect specialising in historic designed landscapes to advise on

ways of enhancing The Lawn.

I like the term ‘enhancing the Lawn’ it should be used with the term ‘Regenerating the Town Centre’ the Town centre and the Lawn, whilst implicitly linked,  should be treated as different entities. They have different functions.   

Whatever happens I would like to see more respect for the open space that is the lawn and the planning policies that protect the Lawn from development.    

Am I the only one who thinks that Dawlish could do with a rest from all this?

Everyone could take some time out to reflect on their own thoughts and perhaps more importantly the opinions of people who disagreed with them.

There are elections next year, Peter and Ann Large, Pete Cross, Val Mawhood and Bernard can then stand for election and take on the workload of being a town councillor.  

That's what I did after complaining about the last lot and although it's been very hard work it's also been very satisfyng to see projects like the Manor House come to fruition

I am quite sure you would prefer the pavilion fiasco to be quietly forgotten, I doubt the fallout from it will enhance your chances of electoral success next year.  

I don't call 45% a fiasco Bernard.  Governments have been elected with less

I'm sorry you think taking time to listen to other peoples opinions is a sign of weakness.

But Hey Ho, stand for election and sign up to do the work, 

If you want to regenerate the appeal of Dawlish to create increased volume of visitors throughout the year and for the money to be spent here. Then you need an attraction that is of practical use. It has already been shown that a World Class bmx/skate park, with indoor and outdoor facilities, would work . A park that would comply with full  official competitions.

Sandy Lane is the prime place for this. Yes, I know there is a poor excuse for a skate park currently there.

The same amount of money that was wasted on the feeble excuse for the paving slab fiasco would have gone along way to seeing this type of project take off.

Regeneration in my book is more jobs for LOCAL PEOPLE, incoming revenue and sustainable not seasonal. Slightly off subject of the bandstand, but in the right directions.

Ooops! Thanks for picking up on the error Lynne. Either predictive text rears its ugly head again or I am human after all!  As I typed this post predictive text once again put in an inappropriate apostrophe, but this time I wasn't rushing and I spotted it. 

Margaret Swift you have deflected my challenge and appear to have perhaps, run out of steam.

You have mentioned that you are now a member of a Teignbridge led group, surely a teignbribge led group will kick any initiative for Dawlish into the long grass, a they have done so for decades..

Teignmouth is and always will be the focus of the Teignbridge cheque book, the multi million pound replacement of the Carlton Theatre is a prime example of this.

I believe the Dawlish Gazette reported a few weeks ago that at least one Councillor who attended the Council meeting on the 30th July appeared to be highly critical of the proposed replacement bandstand. Together with this like minded Councillor are you not the nucleus of a group that can move things forward? There are a host of others out there who have pledged their support, together, as objectors you have already proved that you are a formidable adversary, please, don’t lose that momentum.

You are I believe in favour of a traditional bandstand on the Lawn, on the 22nd July you have also posted your opinion regarding the discussion topic ‘Details of Lawn proposals’ you then appeared to be in favour of the Dartmouth Bandstand, I agree this is functional and would also be in keeping with the heart of our town, we could then return to our traditional roots and host brass band concerts, surely, this is what Dawlish needs?

Please don’t abandon us now, form a group, apply for lottery funding and, don’t wait for Teignbridge to pay lip service to us and then do nothing.

Likeablerat, my first option was to have a dedicated new group to focus on the lawn developments made up of equal numbers of residents, traders and Councilors but, as I said previously, this option was not supported by enough of the other Councillors. Some said that we had to give the Town Centre Working Group time to take forward the ideas for the lawn and most Councillors agreed with that notion. The Mayor could see where this was going so proposed that I take his place on the Town Centre Working Group, which I accepted. We shall see what happens but rest assured, I have not abandoned anyone. The best and most creative ideas have come from the people of Dawlish and we need to harness that creativity and get people more involved in working groups set up by the Council or TDC. I will continue to fight for what the people of Dawlish tell us they want. 

Margaret Swift

It is now rather apparent that you are discreetly backing away from a matter that you appear to have been previously committed to. It is now obvious that you just ‘talk the talk’ but nothing more.

As a Town Councillor, by joining a working group and getting into bed with Teignbridge will waste time and achieve nothing. I get the message that Teignbridge are cutting back on expenditure and lip service is all we in Dawlish will ever get.

For months, you, together with others were outspoken about the CCF proposals, you were totally opposed to all of the elements of the bid and also indicated what in your opinion would have been a more acceptable design for a bandstand.

We cannot wait for a Dawlish Town Council led initiative, the current administration who, are doubtless still licking their wounds, are unlikely to do any thing and we will have to wait until next year and a new council to get the project on the table again, by then it could be too late.

Surely now is the time to move forward with a lottery bid, if you Google ‘lottery bid for bandstand’ you will see that a number of groups have already been successful this year.

In February Dawlish was in the eye of a severe storm and as a result all eyes across the country were focused on our town, this gave us recognition.

Please, ‘walk the walk’ strike while the iron is still hot and join forces with your fellow objectors, form a group and make an effort to replace our ugly bandstand with one that we can all be proud of. 

Likeablerat, I am not backing away at all and, believe me, I do not do discrete when it comes to matters like this and of such importance to Dawlish. The fact is that TDC hold the purse strings so by being on the Town Centre Working Group I can have some influence on how the money is spent. However, I do share your scepticism as at the meeting last week, when I was successfully voted onto the working group by nine out of twelve Councillors, Councillor Vickery did turn to the Councillor next to him and say that xxxxx would not let me on the committee so it doesn't matter! If this turns out to be the case then I will form my own group and I hope that you will be a member! The original proposal in last week's Council meeting was to do nothing until after the elections in May next year and I was vehemently opposed to such a ridiculous delay in progressing the replacement of the bandstand and said so in the meeting. On a point of accuracy, I am not opposed to everything in the CCF bid, but I do think any developments of the lawn should be in tune with the wishes of the people of Dawlish. 

Gosh, I am the demon again. I was not blocking your nomination to the Town Centre Working Group. The point, to which you appear to have turned a deaf ear, is that the Group is managed by Teignbridge with the Deputy Leader as chairman, and having made it clear at the outset that he wanted a small and effective group, there are only two places for town councillors.  Now, I believe it is important that our Mayor, as first citizen and being born in Dawlish, has a greater right than an old retired County Architect and so I have told him that I will stand down from the Group so that you and he can both make constructive input to that activity.

"The wishes of the people" were that 44% wanted the pavilion but only 36% wanted a Victorian bandstand. The most remarkable wish of the people was that of 20% of them who wanted the current bandstand left as it is. 

I am afraid the comment made to another Councillor was as I described, what cannot be described in a post is the tone in which the comment was made. However, the important point being made was, even though the Council had voted me onto the group I would not get a place so it didn't matter. 

Don't be afraid.  And get to know the difference between 'discreet' and 'discrete', especially if you want to understand statistics ;)

Typo! 

Margaret Swift

Just as I thought you are all ‘huff and puff’ and not prepared to ‘walk the walk’ I am most certainly not as naive as you think, you have no intention of moving forward any initiative for a replacement bandstand. You offer a rather useless solution by saying that Teignbridge holds the purse strings, yes they do but Teignbridge will never ever stomp up hundreds of thousands of pounds for a replacement bandstand in Dawlish.

You have watched others do the work and have then been hyper critical of their efforts and waged an unpleasant campaign against them, by doing so, in my opinion, you have breached a professional etiquette and behaved in a manner that the electorate would not expect from Councillors. You have also aired what appears to be a personal grievance, against some Councillor Colleagues; you have openly on this website made a plethora of derogatory remarks about their performance which is shameful.

Initially I was drawn in by your deceptive ways but not any more, you will most certainly not get my vote next time, you are not a good ambassador for 'the people of Dawlish'.

Likeablerat, I can only repeat what I have said and said with honesty. I proposed a separate working group at the Council meeting last week but did not get the support of other Councillors.  Time will tell if the alternative of putting everything back to the Town Centre Working Group was a sensible decision but I will do my best for Dawlish and that is all I can do. If the Town Centre Working Group do not push forward with plans for replacing the bandstand then I will report back to full Council and once again propose that a separate group is set up. I have not waged any war against anyone. I have repeatedly said from May 14th onwards that we have to listen to the people of Dawlish and ensure we have a full consultation and implement the wishes of the people of Dawlish. That was not well received by those keen to have the cultural pavilion built.

My goodness, no wonder people hate the prospect of OFSTED inspections.

What precisely do you mean by " That was not well received by those keen to have the cultural pavilion built."?  Can that possibly be construed as yet another dig at the person you constantly accuse of being committed to the recently exhibited Lawn proposals?  Do I detect a sneer there?

From the beginning of the bid preparation in early April there was an intention to hold a public display of the proposals to gauge public opinion. When it was proposed that the existing group, nominated by Council to prepare the bid, should also arrange the exhibition and survey, you stepped in and persuaded others that it should be a "wider and deeper test of public opinion than ever before", and then Ofsted-tested every sentence in an online survey form until it met your standards. If the survey did not bring the results you sought, the remedy was in your hands and you lost it. You  delayed the progress towards a display and we had to wait until a later date when we could book the Strand centre and the three other venues.

Now it is in your hands to discover exactly what are "the wishes of the people of Dawlish", and I am sitting back and will not interfere as you explore the 13,500 opinions you will have to extract.

I am sure the electorate will have their say in next year's local elections, some present Councillors might be getting an unwelcome surprise.

Just for the record,

Cllr Vickery is the oldest member of Dawlish Town Council. (Aged 76)  He spent an entire afternoon at Cockwood Village Hall manning the consultation stand.  He then spent most of the following three days standing in the Strand Centre talking and listening to residents.  He had a day of rest on the Sunday before spending a morning at Holcombe Village Hall.  On the following day he stood all day at Dawlish Warren Hall.  He also spent an entire afternoon manning a stand at West Cliff school fete talking to parents on one of the hottest days of the summer.

I think that demonstrates a very strong personal commitment to ensuring that the people of Dawlish did get their say.   He doesn't know I've written this post and will probably say I shouldn't have drawn attention to his age, but I think it is so far from the truth to characterise him as being opposed to public consultation and I think it important to get the facts clear

Margaret Swift

Teignbridge does not have hundreds of thousands of pounds earmarked for Dawlish stashed away. They are in fact cutting back on expenditure, the suggested closure of public toilets in Dawlish is a prime example of this and doubtless other assets will be scheduled for disposal in months to come; these are the times that we live in.

The bandstand belongs to Teignbridge and may well benefit from the occasional coat of paint and perhaps one day, the fitment of railings around the raised platform to prevent drunks who use it as a toilet from falling off, but nothing more.

I walk through the Lawn most days and when I glance at the ugly bandstand I now see a monument that will stand for decades in recognition of you and others who ruthlessly opposed a golden opportunity for the Town to move forward.

Hopefully one day in the distant future some of our grand children will have the fortitude, commitment and the best interests of the community close to their hearts and form a cohesive dedicated group that will not abandon the cause as you have done so shamefully. 

I did not oppose the CCF bid and in the end the bid was turned down because it did not meet the criteria laid out in the rules, particularly the rules for creating jobs. TDC does have 106 money from developments, although not much of it,  but all future developments bring other money with it, and that is the money Dawlish Town Centre Working Group need to bid for as well as other sources of lottery funding. In my eyes, it is you who have given up far too soon Likeablerat, I am optimistic about the future of Dawlish and will continue to work hard for a replacement bandstand and other developments on the lawn as indicated by the people of Dawlish in the recent survey.

I have never ever said any Councillor has been opposed to a public consultation. My concern was that the consultation was to be rushed through in late May or early June before the people of Dawlish had the opportunity to fully understand what the bid was for and the possible impact on the lawn area. By involving all Councillors in the consultation process it meant the consultation took place towards the end of June instead of the end of May. This made no material difference to the submitting of the bid as that had to be in by 1st April, so the consultation was always going to take place after the submission of the bid.

Margaret Swift

Your last two posts on this discussion topic are contradictory and lack logic. You appear to have backed yourself into a cul-de-sac, from which it is unlikely that you will emerge with any credibility.

Please stop waffling and being disrespectful about your Councillor colleagues. 

They are not in the least contradictory. Read them again, carefully. People want a replacement bandstand but do not want a huge building on the lawn. 

I know I'm way behind on this subject of the Bandstand and future development on the Lawn (its now October 2016!!!) but I just thought I'd let you know on Dawlish.com  that my maternal Grandfather, Doctor Charles Newton Lovely (who had much connection with Dawlish in his day) would probably turn in his grave at the thought of the Bandstand, which he was instrumental (no pun intended) in gaining approval from the Dawlish Urban Council in June  1900 to be constructed - -  is now being or likely to be demolished, though I seem to recall on my last visit it did look in a somewhat sorry state.

I am not a resident of Dawlish but my family has many connections with the town - Dr Lovely at onetime lived in the property which is now the Museum and had his surgery there.

I just thought I'd put in my 5 pennyworth in defence of the Bandstand !!

I have lived in Dawlish for 18 years and in all that time apart from a lick of paint the bandstand has been left to rot, would it not be a huge benafit to the community

to have a new up to date building. It is not as if it would not get used.

@Goldenhammerman - if the bandstand you are referring to is the one in your pic. that is not the one in place now. the current bandstand looks like a large concrete bunker with one wall taken out and a tiled apex roof. about the only thing that could rot are the timbers that hold the roof up and the wood batons the tiles sit on.

The bandstand in your pic would be a welcome replacement for the concrete bunker that is currently there.

Below is an image of the current one, not one I think they would have errected in 1900.

Regenerate the town? I am so fed up with that word we have had the Strand altered that was going to regenerate the town, the new cycle path that will regenerate the town and how many millions have been spent. We now have the path along side Tucks Plot being removed to make way for more cycle paths but i am told it will regenerate the town and has anything changed, comments on a post card please.

Build a bmx/skate board park that is capable of holding world class events, build an 'underglass' wave pool' that can be used for year round surfing and competions. build a complex that has cinema's, restauraunts and plenty of parking, build a massive 'underglass' shopping centre. Build all of these and place them within a mega country park just outside Dawlish.

Then finish it off with a tunnel under the Exe linking us to Exmouth and the rest of the South Coast for vehicular traffic and maybe slap in a cycle path for good measure

The development couldn't look anymore alien to our landscape than the current development (pic below), I don't think they could have crammed anymore dwellings in if they had tried, but it would definetly be a revenue earner, in my humble opinion over what has been built todate to supposedly regenerate Dawlish.

and don't get me started on the sewage issues.

No, that wont happen, but spend millions on reducing the car parking along The Strand and replacing the concrete pavements with expensive slabs that look worse than the originals after a few months. Spend over £20k on plans for a Carbuncle on The Lawn with out first seeking public opinion. Buy a replacement for the Manor House council offices then have to sell the newly obtained building and end up with a massive loan to pay off. Spend millions on a cycle path few will use at the expense of traffic congestion coming in to town from Exeter and the list keeps growing.

Don't get me started on the fact that these millions of hard earned TAX PAYER's money was a different type of money that cannot be spent on items that would actually bring in revenue just hair brained roller coasters that no one is willing to say enough is enough.

Or how about just getting the council's to do the ******* jobs that they have been paid to do by the rate payer's of Teignbridge.

There, I think that is about all I have to say or may be not.

About sums it up DEEDOODLE. We do need a new bandstand but not a carbuncle or armadillo! TDC had earmarked money for one before the ill thought through plans of a small number of councillors, some still serving, were allowed to waste tax payers money. The mess being created in Dawlish is breathtaking and not in a positive way! 

Sad that the original in my postcard did not survive into the 21st century it seems !

I shan't get drawn into making comment on the existing one in your image other than to say the original was definitely classier - I wonder if any reader can enlighten me as to when the 1900 Victorian gem was "removed" - I believe I.m right in saying that the church that features also in the card I posted has also been"removed"

R H

@Goldenhammerman - i agree with you the bandstand was classier than the current bomb shelter. as to the church with the tall spire. it is not only still there, but i believe it is currently having a very impressive disabled ramp constructed. the church always seems very acftive when ever i go passed.